My black forged Piazza

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Here's the build pics. They're not quite in the right order, but vaguely followable. As you can see, I test fitted one of Gemracing's manifolds, there's plenty of clearance. Sorry about the lowish resolution (not even worth thumbnails), I've got full res scattered everywhere...

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:09 am

WOW!
Thanks for the pics.

Keep in mind if ever the starter plays up, use a reduction starter (Piazza or 4ZE1 Rodeo or Jackaroo).
It's much less strain on the battery, and as I found, will crank quite well below 6V. (Not that I expect to start at that voltage, though my 1600cc OHV (G161U) with RG ignition (RB Gemini reluctor & ignitor & IgCoil) started cold one morning at 5.2V. IMHO - unbelievable!! And yes, it IS a 12V system!)

Unfortunately the 4Z engines have an ND alternator with internal regulator so I can't do that rant.
And the ECU handles the fuel pumps (or is it the alternator?; but NOT oil pressure) so I can't do that rant either.
That only leaves the fink upgrade....
(And the Delco..?)

Maybe one day I'll do something about cosmetics for my vehicles, but why break a habit that has served me well for over one-third of a century?
Besides, in my experience, it's tidying up my wiring or other people finally completing their cars that leads to disaster. (IZU's Rule #173 - always leave something unfinished. #173-b - omitting a few mm of pinstriping is recommended.)

But is still hurts... I mean, it's nice seeing what time others have spent on their cosmetics.

Post by **Piazza_man** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:16 pm

Nice work AA. Great pics too.

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:18 pm

Thanks guys! Not sure which type of starter motor mine is, it came with the engine, in the form of a big smelly oily pile.... lol! Although I was VERY glad to spot the internal reg alternator when I started piecing it all together. My track Gemini now runs a Bosch internal, it's a world apart from the old external reg shite..

Don't worry Peter - my Piazza isn't too much to look at, at present! The bonnet's faded beyond belief, as have a few parts of the body, and there's rust on the hatch. Don't worry though - rust is no stranger, and I have a welder, and patience, when the time comes. The car sits at standard ride height, with no bodykit presently, and no front badge, although all of those things should be remedied over the coming 6-12 months! The Isuzu rear garnish was an essential start, and once the engine's fully cooperating, I'll put the front bar on. Still undecided on the rear wing, but that'd come after rust repairs (read: not particularly soon).

Anyway, today I started pulling apart the front of the engine. I got the timing case off after a few hours stuffing around, but the oil leak wasn't overly apparent (besides a general abundance of oil). Mind you, it was quite dark by the time I'd finally finished removing things, to remove other things, to remove the timing case, so I'll leave it til tomorrow to take a proper look

Also, I somehow missed this:

IZU069 wrote:
archangel62 wrote:...therefore leaning out when the ECU simply can't give the injectors more duty cycle.
Ah - so it's only at high RPM; it's fine up to (say) 40000RPM, or 3k etc, and no problems at low RPM?

And yeah, it seems quite fine up until say, 3000, 3500, where at WOT it starts to seem a tiny bit down on power. But I really need more time with it to figure it out!

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 am

Oh, Bosch...
Tell me when it blows - ie, with a bad or flat battery, or after a jump start - unless you believe that old spouse tale about leaving the jumper battery for a while after starting (which should be done for otherwise unused starter or emergency batteries so they regain charge).
I went back to Jap alternators (as also fittted to N12 & N13 Nissans).

Your starter is a normal starter. The Isuzu reductions have the motor on the side (not the solenoid).
But there are (aftermarket) reductions that look the same as normal "in-lines".

Piazzish · Post by **Piazzish** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:57 am

Nice project! Did not read everything in this thread, but why did you not use the gemracing manifold ?

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:09 am

Piazzish - oh, don't worry, I will! Hahaha. That particular manifold is for my track-only drift Gemini

but I'll be getting another one when budget allows - I have a T28bb that's been highflowed, and has the Tardis' name on it! As my landlord says, "all in the fullness of time." Once she's behaving herself I'll work on fitting an aftermarket computer and bigger injectors - then, once that's ready for a tune, I'll throw a bigger turbo (and the Gemracing manifold) on!

Now, let's play "spot the oil leak." I'm pretty sure it's not the cam seal, which leaves either the oil pump, or the front main seal... I took a ton of pics, if anyone can be bothered taking a look and chipping in their thoughts it'd be appreciated! The real dark (nearly black) stuff is non-hardening sealant. The oil's fairly fresh so (unfortunately) fairly pale in colour til it hits something dirty.

http://archangel62.picturepush.com/albu ... -leak.html

I don't suppose any of the bolts on the front of the head/block actually block off any oil lines? There's one bolt that snapped in the block and couldn't be removed, but it's only to hold the sheet metal backing plate, so not exactly important.

It's worth noting that the oil leak's quite slow on idle, but really churns out if you rev it up. It comes from inside the timing cover, and really flies out that little hole in the bottom of it. I think there would have been enough in there to get the timing belt wet and splash around a bit...

Post by **Piazza_man** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:33 am

Just take the timing cover off and then rev it up. That should expose the weakness.

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » Tue May 01, 2012 8:33 pm

HELL YES! I "think" I found it! ahahahahaha

What's wrong with the oil pump in that picture! I didn't notice, because it was brand new, so I didn't give it a second glance... Plus, I've never had a 4Z before!

...

...

...

...

...

...

For those playing at home, it doesn't have any front seal on it, AT ALL! Apparently it came without one? I'd assumed it was internal inside the channel the shaft goes through... buuut, no. It just wasn't there! I can't believe it leaked as little as it did.

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Tue May 01, 2012 9:12 pm

Hmmm... you're sure that's it?

Well done!

Post by **Piazza_man** » Tue May 01, 2012 9:14 pm

Good work. Can a seal be bought on its own?

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » Wed May 02, 2012 10:47 am

Here's hoping! I'd say so, though. If not I'll be tracking down the supplier of this part and biffing them with it

- but worst-case scenario I have a couple of old 4Z oil pumps buried deep within parts piles - so I could pinch their seals, or just run them instead (which would be a waste of money, but oh well). I'll try a parts store for the seal tonight!

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Thu May 03, 2012 1:41 pm

I'd suggest the orig pump (in case of clearance differences though all may (or should) be the same) and a new seal.
"Officially" all seals should be renewed if removed, though new ones can be reused if undamaged during removal AND if the old shaft hasn't damaged them. But is it worth it? IMO no for the hard to get to seals, whereas the rear gearbox seal (for the prop shaft) and maybe front diff seal may be riskable; but front timing seals etc - no - and definitely not rear engine or front gearbox seals.

The seal is likely to be common - a metric "round number" OD (40mm, 45mm etc) and std shaft ID (eg, 12mm).
IMO it is unlikely that the Piazza uses some strange seal (like the Florian rear axle seals - 52 or 53 x 40 or 45 if I recall correctly).

I get seals from bearing suppliers. Specify OD, ID (shaft diameter) and depth/thickness. I also state the application as that may change the type - though that's more for bearings (eg, C3 clearance types for wheels etc (if I recall...)).

Post by **wedgenut** » Fri May 04, 2012 7:28 pm

It is a standard metric seal 24 x 40 x 7 available from almost any bearing supplier for only a few shekels. You will probably notice a difference with one fitted LOL

archangel62 · Post by **archangel62** » Tue May 08, 2012 2:36 am

Sorted - CBC had to order it, but I picked it up and fitted it today. Made sure the oil pump was crazy clean too. Once I'd fitted the oil pump, I degreased the front of the block, individually degreased all the components I'd removed (basically everything on the front of the block). The timing belt was supposed to be in for me today, but they reckon tomorrow now. It's another Gates green, because apparently they don't make reds for Piazza. Ah well.

On a sidenote, how does anyone set the timing on these engines! I couldn't see jack down that tiny crevasse, and with that tiny timing mark, so I slid under the car and texta'd a line along the front pulley to more clearly mark it for timing. Now that I removed it, I realised I shouldn't have done this under car, and that I probably had the timing retarded 5-10 degrees on the last drive! No wonder it didn't feel quite as peppy as I'd expected. Alas, the vac advance is so erratic I don't trust the timing anyway, but we'll see. I'll mark out the pulley properly while I have it out. Can't wait to drive the thing again, I've got much higher hopes!