My black forged Piazza

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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 » Thu May 08, 2014 11:04 am

For a [potentially] limited time only, here's the build pictures for my Piazza. I usually keep Facebook stuff set to private in case it falls into the wrong hands, but image hosting is a pain in the butt these days... so, enjoy:

https://www.facebook.com/eli.duykers/me ... 902&type=3
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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eyecon
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Post by eyecon » Thu May 08, 2014 3:24 pm

Looking good Eli. I notice the rear springs still sitting a fraction higher than I imagined on your car. Would that have anything to do with the taller front end stance?

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Post by IZU069 » Thu May 08, 2014 8:35 pm

Great pics.
Still NOT using a reduction starter? No probs, but IMO well worth the upgrade (less battery strain). Use 4ZE1 Rodeo or Jackaroo starters.

I never completed the flink upgrade doco...
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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:48 am

Image

Okay so I'm picking the car up from Jaustech tomorrow. Exciting times! It's been a few weeks and it sounds like the car was a bit of a nightmare for the poor blokes working on it. Standard Tardis behaviour, no surprises here.

Well, the result is quite a way off of what I was chasing, but there are some good reasons as to why, and moving forwards, the search for power isn't over.
136 rear-wheel kilowatts on 13psi of boost, and 98RON fuel. It made around 110 on 91RON.

The issue in both instances is pinging. They couldn't get much timing into the tune before it would ping, and the culprit seems to be the standard intercooler. I was intending to run more boost than this, but they found it was most efficient at this boost - so basically, I need a bigger intercooler if I want more boost and timing, and therefore more power. On top of this, the 3" dump off of the turbo is going into a stock exhaust, which I'm told is also very restrictive.

All things considered, I still think I can get 180 - or not far off - once I upgrade intercooler and exhaust. It will be on 98RON though, but after speaking to Anthony a bit more, it seems I can still run it on 91RON, I would just have to not ring its neck. This is good, and more or less what I wanted - I can drive cross country in it, or still drive it somewhat economically if I need to, but just need to put good fuel in if I want to have fun. I can live with that, as it's not prohibitive. After all, it is a turbo car.

After road testing the car, they compared it to a standard S14. All things considered, that's not bad, and it's putting power figures in perspective a bit. My 180SX in Japan probably didn't have much more than this, now that I think about it. Anthony reckons it was probably doing 80-90rwkw in factory trim, though of course it wasn't really running when I dropped it off.

Now the next step. I'm more than happy to upgrade the exhaust, but I had been holding onto the old intercooler for the retro feeling, and the vague sense of originality under the bonnet. Now I'm thinking about getting a bigger cooler with the inlet/outlet on the same side, and getting a sticker made up to mimic the original look. If I can get a bigger cooler in there which looks vaguely like the original, I'll be happy.

I'm still extremely excited to pick it up, even though it's all but open diff, the front tyres suck and the springs are mismatched. I'm willing to bet it's significantly faster than before, and I can't wait!

- Quick note on the starter, I figure if it 'aint broke, don't fix it. I might get one to stockpile, but working on the Piazza is generally only done in cases of dire need xD
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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eyecon
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Post by eyecon » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:11 pm

Looking good there m8. Intercooler and exhaust are an obvious must. Have you considered joining 2 piazza coolers into 1. I would think that will be as close to period as you're going to get if that's what you're really looking for. I posted results and a write-up of a head to head of coolers elsewhere on this forum and the Piazza cooler came in very high for its class. :thumbleft:

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Post by Skrilla » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:23 pm

Car looks nice black does them justice.Always a great feeling to get the car back.
If you boost it,they will run!!

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Post by archangel62 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:33 pm

Thanks guys :D the car is filthy here but that's been the least of my worries. Once I wash it and lower the front end it will start looking alright.

I reckon that was an Autospeed article, they rated the Piazza cooler up to 200kw, but it seems that might have been a bit (very) generous. I hadn't thought of joining two, but it's a thought. I'm more inclined to look at simply a bigger core, but painting it the same black and replicating a Turbo Intercooler sticker for it - but it depends what's out there really.

When I stop and think about standard being around 85, 136 suddenly sounds a lot better. Very keen to see what it'll do with exhaust and intercooler later on though... And I'm also interested in what the response is like. Can't wait to pick it up tomorrow!!!

P.S. Has anyone had a standard Piazza on a dyno? Keen to confirm my suspicions about stock power!
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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eyecon
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Post by eyecon » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:00 pm

You're right about the Autospeed article http://www.isuzupiazza.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1699
Placing 9th out of 25 tested was a pretty good result considering it's size.

You'll be hard pressed finding anybody who had done a standard piazza dyno run. Good luck with that😂

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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:18 pm

Update.

Blown head gasket.

Was driving it home from the workshop and the temp gauge went up a bit. Pulled over to take a look and the coolant was low. Figured there must have been an air bubble before the thermostat or something, topped it up with a litre or so and continued on. Five minutes down the road I'm at a set of lights and there's steam everywhere. Temp gauge skyrockets in a matter of seconds and I limp it to the nearest sidestreet and turn it off.

I'd fitted a couple of little coolant block-offs to the new inlet. Turns out they were only good for air lines, because one just fell apart. I wish I knew which store I bought them from, because I'd love to tear them a new a**hole. Left the car there overnight and went back this morning, armed with some hose, clamps and bolt. Of course it had to be in the world's biggest prick of a place, but I replaced it and filled it up. Went for a little drive around the block, then just as I pulled up to stop, kablamo. I thought I'd fitted two of these blockoffs, but could only find one. The second one had blown. Took awhile to find it, but I did, and it was an even bigger prick to replace, but I did it. Topped coolant up AGAIN.

Drove it again, then I notice it's started idling on three. Still goes fast, but something's a little off. I pop the bonnet to take a look and there's coolant dripping somewhere around the turbo/exhaust side, but I can't find where it's coming from. I looked everywhere - but it's like it's appearing magically on the turbo header. It doesn't appear to be actually coming from anywhere! I let it cool down then opened the radiator cap, started it up and there were significant pulses of air coming out. At first I thought it was the turbo, but the fact that there were pulses leads me to think that it's head gasket...

So the car is now parked somewhere else overnight and I'm going to have to get a trailer tomorrow. Just my freaking luck. From now on whenever I go into a car parts store I'm going to be a cynical bastard and treat them all like idiots -_-
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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eyecon
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Post by eyecon » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:42 pm

Shit mate. That sux. Are you sure it's the head gasket?

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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:09 am

Not entirely... maybe 70% sure? Will wait til I get it home [on a trailer] and do a compression test... Guuuuhhhh. I swear I'm cursed.

It'll get there I suppose. Was looking forward to enjoying it sooner, rather than later though. And christ knows I'm sick of that damned engine bay. Although I kinda know all the tricks now (and have modified several things solely to make them less impossible to work on).
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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Post by IZU069 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:03 am

Thermostats should always have a small hole in them - preferably with a jiggler or whatever tf they call them.
I've been using Stant thermostats of late but they lack the hole. I merely drill a small hole and fits a split pin.


And yeah, one of the problems with low coolant or an air block (as caused by a blown head gasket etc) is the non-indication by temp gauges other than the sudden increase above max cause by superheated steam - ie, too late!
Hence why many fit klixons etc to heads or blocks.

The only telltale for an air pocket is the cooler than usual temp gauge after reasonable post-start running followed by a sudden over the top temp reading that then settles back to norm.
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Post by archangel62 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:02 pm

Yeah, I've suffered the "low temp gauge" pre-failure before in Geminis. Of course the Piazza usually gives you that nice warning light for low coolant overflow/reservoir before the level becomes an issue, but in the case of things popping, no such luck. The overflow was still full, since there was no vacuum in the system to draw on it :(

What's a klixon? Some kind of temp sender for the head? because that'd be a decent idea.

Now I'm debating whether to go another graphite gasket, or Multi-Layered Steel. My friend in Japan says that 4ZC1 engines like to blow head gaskets, which steers me towards MLS. If ~30 seconds of near idle at high temp will blow a graphite gasket, I'm also leaning towards MLS, but I'd still rather blow a head gasket than crack a head. Conflicted. I have ARP head studs in there already.
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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Post by IZU069 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:53 am

Klixon - see Jaycar Thermal Circuit Breaker/Switch. Typically ~$6 and come in various temperatures, both NO & NC. Occasionally RACV & RAA etc (use to...) run an article about them being a highly recommended addition to any vehicle. As they said - a $10 circuit (a NO klixon & buzzer wired between IGN +12V * earth/ground) that can save $thousands.
I was using one as a controller for my electric fan (relay).


A low coolant alarm is good, but if that's only the overflow bottle it's close to useless. You can have a full overflow and an empty radiator. And I think te Piazza is merely for the bottle.
More modern vehicles do have engine coolant level sensors.
But a backup block or head temp sensor (klixon etc) is nice in case thermostat jiggle holes aren't big enough to pass captured air, or the coolant has dropped hence surrounding the temp sensor with gas.
Also coolant may be fine but oil low... (Oil is usually does about 40% of cooling in water cooled engines.)


Alas I still use the original headbolts and gaskets and have had no problems - not that that includes 4ZC1-Ts, but I'm not aware of gasket issues... like I'm sure stuff like that would have been mentioned in my conversations with Guru.
I recall on OzFem heaps about gaskets; MLS & copper with O-rings etc etc. But they were often to sort that would NOT wash out bores with warm soapy water (because the bores could rust LOL!) and probably didn't metho or ether or soap their head gasket surfaces.
I recall my first headgasket dikhed back in year 12. He had Alfas which were renowned for gasket (and IMO many!) problems. But when he said they only lasted 3 months I asked wtf he did to fit them. "Nothing - I just use graphite." Graphite - wtf??! Oh yeah - coat the gasket with graphite because otherwise they are too hard to remove.

My experiences with OP's headgasket issues went downhill form there.
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

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Post by archangel62 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:13 pm

Super quick update - cheers for the above reply Peter, I understand and generally agree with the lot, however I've gone with my normal "over-engineering" ways.

MLS head gasket is paid for and en route. I told the machine shop to just test my head - because I figured I could source a cheap replacement if need be - but it seems to have been misunderstood as they went ahead and did the work. Thankfully they knocked a little bit off the price due to the mix-up, but it's still cost me about 8 times what a cheap head would have... So I now have my original head back, and almost ready to go back on. It needs new rocker shafts, as mine were worn.

I've also sourced some donor front springs from an EA Falcon. At a glance the corresponding Fairmont/Fairlane series looked marginally thicker, but I don't want to go overboard, and I think standard EA fronts will be amply stiff. Pending time and motivation, I'll swap them over and get the front to a sensible height!

Oh, and as mentioned elsewhere, it turns out my second LSD, which I bought off of Elky, is actually a Jackaroo 4.55:1 item, so I will need to take it to the local diff shop and swap the centres to my 3.909 gearset and have them set up properly (backlash/shims/etc) when time/money permits.
Indigo - '76 TX Gemini sedan, G180W+T project,
Abigail - '81 TE sedan, white, G180W ITB project,
New Hotness - TG Gemini drift car, orange, 4ZE1+T
Tardis - 1986 Piazza 4ZC1-T, black, forged, 136rwkw @13psi
Coupe - TX coupe grip car, "do it later", G180W+twin carbs
Trevor aka Jimmy's Gem - Grandpa-spec TD
BA Falcon - Tow car

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