The 4Z engine family, heads and blocks.

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The 4Z engine family, heads and blocks.

Post by Rodeobob » Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:44 am

Ive got all the 4Z heads and blocks etc here to compare. 1.8L 4ZB1 x2, 2L 4ZC1, 4ZC1-T x2, 2.3L 4ZD1 x2 and 2.6L 4ZE1 x3. Ten motors in total. lol.

They are found in these Vehicles below.

1.8L WFR Holden Shuttle bus, Pre 86.
2L WFR Holden Shuttle bus, 86 on.
2L Turbo Holden Piazza, 86-87
2.3L KB29 Holden Rodeo, 85-87
2.3L UBS Holden Jackaroo, 86-87
2.6L UBS Holden Jackaroo, 88-Dont know when
2.6L TF R6 & R7 i think Holden Rodeo, 88-97

Blocks
They all have the same bolt patterns for the head, manifolds, water pump and sump.
They share the same seals and gaskets etc.
They all have the same crank journal sizes for the bearings.
The 2.3L and 2.6L motors have larger diameter piston pins than the 1.8L and 2L.

Each engine has its own water pump, different bolt patterns for the fan on the shaft and overall lengths.
The timing belts are also different, the 1.8L and the 2L share the same belt and the 2.3L and 2.6L have their own belts. The tooth pitch on the 1.8L-2.3L motors are the same as are the tooth counts on the pulleys the 2.3L belt is longer and has more teeth. The 2.6l motor has a different tooth pitch and hence different pulleys.
The 2.6L has a bigger hole in the front of the block for the water pump and a thiner gasket but the same bolt pattern as the others.
The 1.8L and 2L motors have a shorter deck height due to a shorter stroke.
Theres a few external casting lugs that are different on the blocks, one ive found is on the 1.8L block theres no lug on the passenger side to bolt the steel tube to for the heater hose. The shuttle runs the hose forward of the motor. I havent checked this on the 2L bus block but the 2.3L and the 2.6L have it.


Head
The B1 head is one all on its own because of the distributor hole. You could use it on a carby motor and use the B1 distributor, or possibly get the distributor hole bored out to the right size or swap the distributor internals as the shaft etc is the same length as the Piazza dizzy, provided the internals of the housing are the same. The Piazza runs a different vac/boost pot so i doubt it. Have a look in this part of the forum in another thread, i posted up in there what i know so far about dizzys. Same ports as below, cc of chamber unknow as is valve size, i have two of these heads here, one is in duty on my ute and the other is soon to be removed from a motor pending the results of a compression test. I am definately going to look at the boring of the dizzy hole as 1.8L busses are cheap and usualy full of rust.

2.3L and both 2L heads are the same. The only thing is the hole for the fuel pump pushrod in the 2.3L head. Same valves and same ports. The only possible difference is the cc of the combustion chamber but i couldnt see them doing this. The Shuttle and Piazza head has 4ZC1/s cast on the rear and the 2.3L head has 4ZC1/D1 cast on it. Who knows what it was fitted to what in other parts of the world. Its possible that the 2.3L head was fitted to 2L motors that were fitted to something that ran a mechanical fuel pump in other countries. The early 2.3L head was crack prone. Under the cam in the centre of the head is a good spot for a crack.

The EFi 2.6L head has bigger valves and bigger ports. The valves appear to be only 1mm or so bigger, the ports are 2mm bigger in the exhaust and 4-5mm bigger in the inlet. I am told the combustion chamber is larger, it looks bigger but as to how many cc im not sure. I was told by Micheal (slug on HGOL) that if i put the 4ZE1 head on a smaller motor i would end up with a comp ratio of about 7:1 and i would be lucky if it would start. Because the ports are bigger in this motor the runners in the manifold are bigger than the Piazza ones too.
*An important not to anyone looking to do a conversion with one of these motors. The Hi-Torque motor was introduced, its engine management allthough still I-Tec is different than the earlier setups. One thing to look for is the complete setup from the donor vehicle. The ECU circutry varied from year to year even with the earlier motors. There are two different pin out arrangments the early one had two plugs into the ECU and the latter has three. Just because the plugs are the same doesnt mean the ECU will run your motor.

The 2L-2.6L heads all have the same hole in the head for the distributor so the crank angle sensor distributor from the 4ZE1 can be fitted to the other motors. But you need a computer to run it. Its something id like to toy with, the 2.6l efi on a smaller non turbo motor but time is money. And i dont know stuff all about efi. I do know its expensive and 2.6l rodeo stuff is gold plated at the wreckers.

All the 4Z heads run matched pedestals for the rocker shafts that sit over the cam and make a cam tunnel. These belong to the head. Dont buy a head without the rocker gear, the head is the bearing and the pedestals off another motor can be out of alignment by a long way.

In a nut shell thats about it. There is one other motor the 1.6L 4ZA1. It was fitted to rodeos etc in Africa and the like, but i highly doubt we will ever see one of them. These motors have smaller rod bolts.

If im wrong or i missed something let me know.

Cheers. Bob.
Last edited by Rodeobob on Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by GeminiCoupe » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:13 pm

What about the difference in internals bob? Im looking at grabbing a 4ZC1 out of a Shuttle for the Gemini and turboing that [I havent found www.holdenshuttle.com yet so im assuming no one gives a fuck if i chop it up for the engine :weedman: ]. So far about all i know is that the Pistons are different as is the sump. What about oil pump, rods, etc etc?

Nick-
project - 76 Gemini Coupe G200z EFI Turbo
daily - 02 S15 Nissan 200SX GTspecS Turbo
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Post by Rodeobob » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:13 am

Dunno Nick.
Ive got the Piazza motors, one is going and im not touching it. The other is awaiting the bolting up of a turbo to see how it runs. I dont want to pull it down for the sake of a look if theres no need to. And when i pick up the third its got a warranty that it runs ok, so i wont touch it either.

If someone brings a 4ZC1-T around to my shed and helps me strip it i will post up the details straight away. Ive got a shuttle motor all striped to bare short motor already. If any one in melb has the need to fully strip a motor give me a yell. I could possibly provide a place to remove and refit a motor if needed. Im that keen to do the comparasin.
I also want to throw a 1.8L strip into the mix.

Id say the only difference would be the pistons and that would be it. Thats if they are different. The comp ratio speculation/printed factory differences could suggest they are the same for some motors, thats if they were different compression ratios in different countries.
Drop in a set of forgies and away you go. Im still thinking 2mm OS RB30. they have to make em. Hence the 1.8L block it would go 86 or 87mm nicely.

**********************************************************

You dont need to get a shuttle Nick, ive got a 2L block here thats going nowhere, well i mean its my spare. lol. More would be handy. If you do find one i will be interested in some bits off it. You can wreck it here if you want.

Its possible that Michael on HGOL could tell you what the differences are.

Bob
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Currently unemployed. Watch this space.

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Post by shorty » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:05 pm

i found out that the heads also have the same bolt pattern as the g series. when i was fixing my head i wanted to presure test the head and who in there right mind has a pressure plate for a 4zc1. so we tried the gemini one and it was a perfect fit. so that might help someone one day if there heads crack and are told that they have to pay to get the pressure plate made.

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Post by GeminiCoupe » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:06 pm

Bob, i need abit more then just the bare block :yawinkle:

Im looking at using the entire bottom end as per Piazza except for the pistons, which is why im interested in the Shuttle 4ZC1. If all major bottom end components are the same then that is the go. Oil pump isnt really a drama as im planning on using the 4ZE1 type [27L a min from memory!] and sump will be modified, but im guessing ill need the Piazza type. Custom manifolds and off ya go!

Im not keen on pulling apart the one in my Piazza - and i hope i never have to. Its SUPPOSED to be my daily. LOL

Nick-
project - 76 Gemini Coupe G200z EFI Turbo
daily - 02 S15 Nissan 200SX GTspecS Turbo
wet-weather fun toy - TX 75 Gemini Sedan G200z

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Post by Rodeobob » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:52 am

GeminiCoupe wrote:Bob, i need abit more then just the bare block :yawinkle: -
Sorry i meant short motor, the stuff is still in it. Well its a bare long actually the head is in under the bench all decked and ready to go. Ive got my eye out for more of em.
GeminiCoupe wrote: Oil pump isnt really a drama as im planning on using the 4ZE1 type [27L a min from memory!] and sump will be modified, but im guessing ill need the Piazza type. Custom manifolds and off ya go!
Id have to check that. The Water pump hole and water pump are different on the E1, but the same bolt pattern.
Id say the Piazza/shuttle pump has a healty rate of flow as well.
The B1 in my ute makes good oil pressure. Going by the rattles it generates it should be like the old 202 i had in my one tonner and make stuff all pressure. You should come around when i strip the old 1.8L down. We can both have a look at the isuzu quality and see how loose it all is. Its done nigh on 300,000kms if not more. Second gear compression lockups at 70kmh every second day, im always late for work. lol.

Cheers. Bob.
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Post by GeminiCoupe » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:50 am

Is the B1 your stripping out of the Ute? If so, can we blow it up first? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LOL. Ah, the beauty of being young - so mechanically minded, yet so mechanically intolerant. haha. If its the same as the Piazza 4Z i wouldnt mind grabbing it off you, if your interested ofcourse, not for a few weeks though.

The oil pump i think slug and denny were telling me about, theres a way to do it. I posted the question on there forum so im awaiting a knowledgeable reply.

Cheers,

Nick-

BTW, got something for you to try. Next time you compression lock it, do it coming into a corner and give the wheel abit of a reef, then nail it. MMmmmMMmm...
project - 76 Gemini Coupe G200z EFI Turbo
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Post by Rodeobob » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:59 pm

GeminiCoupe wrote:Is the B1 your stripping out of the Ute? If so, can we blow it up first? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LOL. Ah, the beauty of being young - so mechanically minded, yet so mechanically intolerant. haha. If its the same as the Piazza 4Z i wouldnt mind grabbing it off you, if your interested ofcourse, not for a few weeks though....
Nah it will be in a few weeks and its the one in the shuttle that was running ans then stopped. Suspect dropped valve or worse. Dunno havent had time to look at it. Pushed it onto the lawn and wheeled the next job in. lol.
Cant blow the ute motor up, id have nothing to drive. Besides it might damage an important bit.
A 1.8 block should be the same except for the bore.
GeminiCoupe wrote:The oil pump i think slug and denny were telling me about, theres a way to do it. I posted the question on there forum so im awaiting a knowledgeable reply.....
I should look in there havent been there for a while.
GeminiCoupe wrote:BTW, got something for you to try. Next time you compression lock it, do it coming into a corner and give the wheel abit of a reef, then nail it. MMmmmMMmm...
Have done. Roundabouts.
I do it on the freeway off ramp, not safe to go nuts there. Or any where on a public road.
Its a bit light in the back the old ute, tends to swap ends quicker than you can moove the wheel if you get too hard core.

Bob.
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Currently unemployed. Watch this space.

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Post by GeminiCoupe » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:48 am

Good to see your still hooning at your age Bob - old habits die hard.

Anyway, the answers to my question.

http://turing.une.edu.au/~ashley/gemini ... 3138#13138

Nick-
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daily - 02 S15 Nissan 200SX GTspecS Turbo
wet-weather fun toy - TX 75 Gemini Sedan G200z

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Post by Rodeobob » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:19 pm

Well some of them.

I will ask a question in there.

Bob.
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Post by mark85 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:20 pm

Hi, I know its been sometime but I have an Isuzu WFR with a 4ZC1-S Engine. The head cracked and I need a replacement and the only decently priced one is a 4ZC1/D1 one. Do you guys think it would fit? This one I found is not in my country as I would have taken my mechanic to have a look at it, but I know that they are extremely similar so i thought it could be alright. Thanks a lot, Mark

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Post by ImpulseRocket89 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:13 am

Just to help fill in some of the missing information.

4ZE1 Cylinder head volumes.

Pre 1993 Hemispherical chamber - 74cc
93+ "Kindey" shaped chamber (no air injection ports) - 58.5cc (deeper dish pistons were used to maintain lower compression.

4ZS1 Cylinder head chamber volume is close to the 93+ 4ZE1 volume (58-60cc).

Sorry that the number is not exact, but I don't remember the figure. I just remember that it is about 14-15cc smaller than the Hemi 2.6 chamber.
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Post by IPTOC » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:42 pm

Guys,

In respect of the differences or not between 1994cc 4ZC1 and 4ZC1-T engines:

1) Blocks are the same except for the take-off spigots for the turbo oil and water supplies
2) Crankshafts are the same
3) Camshafts are the same
4) Oil pumps are the same (!)
5) Pistons and connecting rods are DIFFERENT
6) Connecting rod bearings are DIFFERENT due to the oil hole being in a different position. There were some aftermarket ones available from Federal-Mogul a few years ago which had TWO oil holes in each of the con rod shells, so that they could be used on normally aspirated and turbo motors, but I haven't seen any for a while now.

Contrary to what has been written, there are subtle differences between 4ZC1 heads and 4ZD1 heads on engines without air injection (common heads will have 4ZC1-S cast into the back of the head).
Valves look similar, but according to the parts detail, the part numbers for the Turbo valves are unique to the turbo engine. Interesting, because the valve seats and valve guides are the same part numbers!

While the bolt patterns are the same for the head to block bolts, the HEAD GASKETS ARE ALL DIFFERENT as the bore sizes differ for every size from 1.6 up to 2.6 4Z series engines. There is some commonality with con rods across certain variants, but all of the volume increases were created via increases in bore size.

Another thing to note is that the head gasket for the 4ZC1 engine is NOT the same specification or design as the 4ZC1-T engine. Yes, it will fit, but it is NOT correct for the job and there are subtle differences in hole sizes, shapes and (fundamentally) the material used. Only use 4ZC1 head gaskets on a 4ZC1-T motor if you like changing head gaskets!

Also, the exhaust manifold to head gasket is UNIQUE to the 4ZC1-T motor. It has double-thickness compressible metal material either side of the main gasket substrate, unlike ALL of the other, normally aspirated, gaskets.

Hope this helps!!
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Post by IPTOC » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:51 pm

Just a few more bits:

2.3 (4ZD1) and 2.6 (4ZE1) blocks are taller than 1.8 (4ZB) and 2.0 (4ZC1) blocks. This is part of the reason why they have different timing belts.

1.8 and 2.0/2.0T engines have the same oil pumps. 2.3 and 2.6 items will not fit the 1.8 or 2.0 blocks without some machining; I know the bolt pattern is the same, but I wouldn't like to guarantee there is sufficient spare material in the casting of the smaller engines to safely machine one out to take the larger pump.

One of our members over here has assembled 2.6 pistons successfully into a 2.0 block and is using the 2.0 timing belt, oil pump etc. coupled with a hybrid turbo using a turbine wheel and housing from the Piazza RHB52 turbo and a compressor wheel and housing from a later Subaru Legacy IHI turbo. All slotted together very nicely, will let you know what it goes like/how long it lasts once we can find someone to line bore the cylinder head - see the previous VERY TRUE statement from Rodeobob re: DO NOT mix and match cam caps between heads, although this isn't actually the issue in this case!
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1851 Cellar chock full of Isuzu spares!!

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