WTB: Altenator

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Chris
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WTB: Altenator

Post by Chris » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:35 pm

I think its time. Changed the battery and still have problems starting. Battery drops within 2 hours to 11V so I think I need one.

Anyone preferably around melbourne that is in good nick

Cheers,

Chris
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by IZU069 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:14 pm

You mean when running it drops to 11V (as opposed to when not charging/running)?

The battery should be between 13.8-14.4V when running (normal RPM etc).

I have a couple of alts here.

What price are you offering?
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Chris
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Post by Chris » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:28 am

When the car is off it drops to 11.1 V and takes 5 goes to start. If I drive it for about an hour it starts fine. Given I just replaced the battery I assume it be the alternator or something is sucking my juice heavily
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by IZU069 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:06 pm

Are you measuring at the battery?

A normal battery will be about 12.7V (12.6V-12.8V) fully charged.
A flattery will be about 1V less - usually 11.3-11.6V.

If the battery is 11.9V, then it is stuffed - or soon will be.

Your alternator may be charging - but is it enough?

If it is charging at 13.8 - 14.4V then it is fine.

If it isn't, then it might be a faulty alternator (worn brushes) or something might be loading it down - eg - a stuffed battery. (And a big warning to readers if that stuffed battery is an AGM.... Sheels on Wankerville's OzGemini was close to an explosion else fire with his st'd Gemini 45A alternator & later a 75A alternator feeding a collapsed AGM battery (dare I mention that it was a 3 month old Optima Yellow top LOL!?).)

But two typical tests:
- voltmeter across battery when not charging should be ~12.7V. If not why not - stuffed battery or stuffed alternator etc?
- voltmeter across battery with engine running and charging should be above 13.6V - say 13.8 - 14.4V.


Some traps:
- there are fuses (flinks) and connectors between battery and alternator. Standard Piazza wire flinks are shit and are trouble and bad connection prone.
- a battery has "surface charge" after charging. EG - a good battery may be 13.8V after a charge. This should drop to 12.7V or less after 24 hours, or after 5-15 minutes with headlights on.
- battery voltages are normally measured open circuit (no load) except when charging. A full 12.7V battery may dip to 12.2V with IGN & lights on but that doesn't mean it is suddenly ~50% discharged.

A rough ROT: Every 0.1V change across an open-circuit battery is about 10% change in capacity. EG - if 12.6V is full, then 12.3V = 3x0.1V down = 30% discharged (which is the normal recommended or spec limit for cranking = car batteries).


And "5 goes to start" suggests something other than the battery - bad splugs or tuning.

For comparison, the RB Gemini ignition cold-starts my car at 5.2V (battery volts).
The Piazza ignition should do similar.
Whether the EFI does is another matter, but like most quality systems, at least low-impedance injectors are used (so 8V & below should be okay).
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Chris
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Post by Chris » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:27 am

I doubt it is the battery as mentioned I only bought a week ago. I get about 13.8V while charging.

How much do you want for it
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2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by IZU069 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:03 am

Not that I mind selling, but..
IZU069 wrote:Are you measuring at the battery?
What are you offering for the alternator?

You can always buy a new battery later if it isn't the alternator eh?


FYI - If you ever find that OzGem Sheel's thread, I think the first reply was mine and I suggested it was the battery.
One alternator and 4 pages (and several l..o..n..g PMs) later I was prove right.
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Chris
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Post by Chris » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:44 pm

Why you fuck with my head lol.

I JUST BOUGHT A NEW BATTERY AND STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM. I meassured the voltage and I am not getting enaugh charge more evidence such as BRAND NEW BATTERY doesnt hold charge indicates altenator is stuffed.

How much do you want, i have no idea $50?
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by IZU069 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:28 am

Chris wrote:When the car is off it drops to 11.1 V
IZU069 wrote:Are you measuring at the battery?
Is that too fucked for you?
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Post by Chris » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:25 am

Yes hunny. I am
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2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by IZU069 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:41 pm

Cool.

If you battery is measuring 11.1V, then it is stuffed.
Or it is discharged bay below fully discharged and is hence damaged.


13.8V is enough to charge a battery.

And it may be that your alternator is undercharging which has therefore stuffed a new battery.

I just wanted to confirm that your battery was stuffed.


$50 seems a bit low considering self-serve wreckers charge (or charged, no pun intended) $5 less.
And if the Piazza's are harder to get....
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Post by wedgenut » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:05 pm

Stop bickering children and deal with the problem, The battery is new therfore it should be okay. If it charges when running alternator should be reasonable. However having said that i did have one alternator that charged at 13.8V on bench test but had a faulty diode and it sucked the power back out when switched off. Ah the lord giveth and then he taketh away again.

Check for shorts on main alternator wiring and check alternator diodes as well. If you can, or get someone else to check for you.

Here is a basic flow chart to follow
http://www.ifitjams.com/circuit.htm
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Post by IZU069 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:46 pm

But an open circuit 11.1V is way below normal "full discharge" voltage.

It is definitely damaging for the battery, but as usual, that may be hard to ascertain for a while.
Else it reflects an collapsed cell. (Warranty claim?)

But as I wrote, an undercharging alternator will lead to early battery failure. If Sheel's new $350 Optima battery can fail within 3 months with a good alternator, a bad alternator and a cheaper battery...
And 13.8V is a nominal alternator output - they can range from 13.8V to 14.4V.


But in case the alternator is dropping under load, I have an alternator. Ffrom what I understand, other 4Z alternators do not fit, hence the Piazza alternator is the only "Isuzu" alternator.
And with my Pick-A-Part price-list showing $45 for alternators - plus the petrol and trouble to remove it....
Since I have 2 Piazzas and only 2 alternators, I am happy to keep it.
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Post by Rodeobob » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:52 pm

Wouldnt be the first time ive heard of a new dud battery.
Ive also seen em with dud posts that are fractured down in the battery.


What brand of battery?? how many cca? would that be a new battery or one of those reconditioned ones??


I have a jump starter pack thing here. On my rodeo it will start it, it will even crank the thing along in first gear for a bit (leads get awful hot) but that battery pack thing will not start the Piazza. It wont even wind it over once.


Ive seen it plenty with VN commodores. It wont start. dead battery. nah its all good, it cranks over. Buy a new battery, i bet that will get it to start up first crank. It does. Just one of those cars that needs a good battery.

Not saying thats your problem but it would be worth trying it with another battery if only because the alternator one a Piazza as an arse of a job.


Piazza alternator only fits a Piazza too so $50 probably wont cut it.
Id have a spare here but it would be more like $150.


Bob.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

Currently unemployed. Watch this space.

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Post by IZU069 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:00 am

Geez Bob, let him buy my alternator - he knows that's the problem.
(And it may well be, but his battery is stuffed for starters (pun intended).)
I figure if people can sell my voltage-boosting twin 5c diodes on eBay for $42, I can sell a Piazza alternator.


But if his alternator is ok, I'm betting it's an Optima or Apollo battery.


I take it your Piazza starters are the non-reduction types? The reductions take about half the current of the plain starters. (ie, ~140AQ vs 280A)
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Post by Rodeobob » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:54 am

Yeah non reduction.


Rodeo has a reduction on it. Didnt help that one of your tyres was flat on the back.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

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