Page 1 of 1

WTB NON LSD Diff Center

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:43 am
by pa_man
HI, I have an Isuzu Wasp and have been told a Pizza Diff center will fit.
As such i am after a NON LSD Piazza diff center if there are any out there.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers Josh

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:51 pm
by IZU069
Any Jackaroo or Rodeo diff prior to the 4ZE1 2.6 EFI will fit the Wasp. They are generally all the same ratio (4.55).

But I strongly suggest the LSD. I had one in my G161U (Florian) engined Wasp for at least the last 10 years and recommend it - less wheel spin; even more self correcting in slides (but with power maintained).

Covering over 200,000km from up to ~150k on freeways to somewhat slower on laboured goat tracks i only had LSD-understeer twice - both at the same local roundabout in a somewhat slack under-revving turning mode... both quickly solved with a clutch-in.

PS - the same will fit the Florian but you'll need the Piazza crown & pinion for a 3.9 ratio instead of 4.55. IMO the Florian's 4.1 is too high anyhow - we used to change them for the ~3.7 Bellett C&Ps noting that they are 8-bolt & not 10-bolt like later Isuzus (Piazza, LUV, KB, Rodeo, Jackaroo etc).

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:54 pm
by pa_man
So The Florian Diff will fit the Wasp?
The main thing is to increase Highway speed and I do have a Florian Diff.
Standard 1500 so wheel spin not a huge concern :-)

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:38 pm
by IZU069
Yes -change the whole banjo but you'll probably have to use the Wasp flange for the Wasp - it's a deeper dished flange (so crack its nut before (Wasp) banjo removal).

Ditto if the Florian has Bellett diff gears - something us BCCV Treasurers usually did - Florians being 4.1 with Belletts usually ~3.7 ratio compared to Wasp and common KBs & Rodeo & Jackaroos being the standard commercial 4.55. (I was to get a KB ~5.25 ratio for rallying until i discovered the 400Nm G200W...)
IE - banjos are interchangeable and axles have the same diameter and splines until the 4ZE1 engine.

Sometimes a higher diff ratio increases speed - that's a function of the engine's torque characteristic.
Wasps had the 3 bearing G150 with iron head and i don't recall their torque curve.
I got the impression std G150 Wasps were fairly gutless compared to my G161-OHV Wasp.
[ IMO the old 3 bearing G150s were "zippier" than 5-brg G150s but 5brgs had more engine torque/power and that should mean higher top speed assuming a suitable gear/diff ratio. I typically use the (early Gemini) 0.782 5th else common 0.855 - i haven't used a Bellett or Florian 4 speed in over 2 decades. ]

My Wasp had a standard spec Florian G161 engine except for Gemini conrods & pistons (obviously) and a slightly torquier cam, but even being a mere Nikki carbied 1600cc with a 0.782 fifth I still wanted a 6th gear... And that was before its later standard G-series electronic dizzy (ie the "RG" dizzy) though i'm unsure of its impact.
[ The RG imo being the best ignition you can have except for CDI etc. Ironically (imo) the RG is also the cheapest (DIY etc), and of course uses all Isuzu-OEM & common parts for those strict Marque collectors or "Modified" category concourses (or were in-Marque mods better in the st'd category...?).
Though some non-CDI aftermarket ignitions might pip the RG if they have super igCoils, just substitute the RG's blue ND for a Bosch MEC etc. My Wasp ran an MEC 723 (120mJ) for a while but i changed back because i was too lazy to fit the passives to stabilise its (Jackaroo) tacho. Not that i tested if the RG's ignitor could supply full MEC current, but the RG ignitor is self protecting. ]

Sorry, i digressed...

I was to change my Wasp's LSD to to 3.9 using a Piazza LSD else Piazza crown & pinion in a pre-4ZE1 Jackaroo/Rodeo LSD but i got rid of her before that.
The point being that i was ready to try a 3.9 in the Wasp with mere G161 pushrod engine though i think 4.1 would have been more appropriate - especially with my 15" rims (195/60?? tyres) - but i wanted the LSD.
But if you have the standard Wasp 3 bearing G150... with early carby (& generator, & bendix... oh, it's all coming back to me!) I'd suspect your choice of 4.1 Florian banjo would be the lowest you would go for top speed.

BTW - don't confuse interchanging Florian & Bellett crown and pinions and then Florian BANJOS with Wasps, LUVs, KBs, Jacks, Rodeos etc. Florians & Belletts are 8 bolt crowns. Later (non-Aussie) Florians & most Isuzus until the 4ZE1 are 10 bolt. (Geminis & early Piazzas are usually Salisbury types.)
And obviously the non-existent (non-B-type) Bellett banjo won't interchange with banjo'd Isuzus (Florians, KBs, Piazzas etc).
I've seen someone interpret the above info as meaning Bellett & Florians diffs are interchangeable, hence Jackaroos fit Belletts etc etc.

FYI - With my 300Nm@2kRPM G200W Florian i was keen for a 2:1 ratio diff... imagine cruising a lazy 150kmh at 2,000 RPM... (Though that engine was tuned for peak torque/economy at highway cruising speeds - namely ~380Nm@3kRPM. I did begin torque/power versus high speed resistance calcs for a top speed & gearing estimate but i never completed them. It was a standard G200W with the usual twin DCOE45/48 & 2:1 exhaust tune - i didn't do the 170kW cam grind.)
If only those ~3.4 ratio import Piazzas had banjo diffs!
But there are always Getrag boxes...

Damn. Another TL:DR. ;)

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:48 pm
by pa_man
Awesome thanks for all the info, Wasp is likely to stay standard as there are on a few Styleside Wasps on the road, just hopefully with a bit higher top speed

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:23 pm
by IZU069
Oh yeah, i LUVed my styleside (the other Ruston).
For a vehicle i got from a jest and intended to only keep for 12 months i was pretty amazed i had it for 15 years and then only got rid of it for legal reasons.
But it proved a great test bed for things to do to my GT, and despite what some allegedly very small richard craniums seemed to think, all mods/enhancement were reversible (as is usually the case with my vehicles). (The worst "scar" being a crossmember welded bracket for the rear 5-speed gearbox mount (before i found the OEM bolt on part) but that can be ground off. And though my GTs are now also gone, my G200W Florians will benefit immensely from learnings.)

IMO the best thing about the OEM Wasp is its 4.449 ratio first gear - something that got us from Cape Trib to Cooktown during its run-in. That would not be possible with its later (Gemini) 5 speeds, though maybe a 4.1 ratio Rodeo box...?? (Obviously i'm talking about the coastal route! When would a Bellett/Florian owner take the easy road when 4WD routes exist?)
I'm sure my 300Nm@2k G200W could pull a 3.2 first although if tyre grip is lost its torque is no advantage...

Unfortunately all my Isuzus have been daily runners. Though i never cut harnesses or butchered hardware other than occasional holes, they do get the modern touches like column switch stalks; 75A+ alternators; electronic ignition; halogen and more recently LED lighting etc. My PA20W Florians will be EFI and probably 4 disc with climate control though i've ditched the 4WD Florian idea in favour of a post-Wasp 4WD ute.

But if keeping yours standard i suppose a 5 speed box is out of the question. But hey, we did Melb to Cooktown return with its original 4 speed though i admit i declared the engine to be "run in" earlier than i normally would. Not sure if we exceeded 110kph often whereas later with the 5th gear... er... the RPM at 110kph was significantly lower.

PS - 08:20 20Oct16 Zulu: I just remembered one Wasp butchering, namely the enlargement of the Wasp's radio -cum- blanking_plate dash cutout. Though it handled the pseudo-GT paneled gauges (later Isuzu oil pressure, fuel & temperature thermal gauges) i butchered it for the cup holder when i moved my Alpine HU up from underneath its Florian heater controls. I was to return the gauges and reverse the awful top-centre console i made (it's too high using GT etc gauges unless you carve out the dash which i wasn't prepared to do).
In retrospect the relatively simple "inverted" Jackaroo oil/temp/fuel radio insert was perfect, and i loved the dash tray it added.
I'd now use a remote HU especially since i no longer use CDs.
And i was planning climate control with controls that were less bulky than the Florian heater/vent console.

That awful but still very mock-up centre console used existing holes to mount - eg, 2 window trim holes - and note that my Wasp had an early Bellett speedo cluster with grafted 1980s-style Jackaroo speedo cluster with inserted 3-digit voltmeter. I loved its low fuel warning and that i could finally see the high beam indicator. IMO the Jackaroos had a good gauge set - early versions could transplant Bellett Deluxe & GT gauges - and of course they were all the stable thermal types, not bouncy electromags.

Apols, yet again i ramble but i thought i'd clarify my omitted butchering before anyone suggests bullshit factoring.

PPS - i just realised too the Wasp's electric windows but that was a direct result of the driver's window winder breaking off (the complete shaft, not just the handle). Conversion to electric was the easiest fix. Sure, a few extra holes but they are all hidden, and i already had holes to run speaker wires...

Anyhow, i'll end this crap. Too many things to remember and probably more scope to attract criticism, and i've left the Bellett/Wasp fold anyhow.

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:59 pm
by redpanda
I Have a non Lsd diff for sale from an auto Piazza

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:58 am
by IZU069
How much, and where are you located?