Starting Issue

General Bellett, Gemini 75-98, Piazza 81-93, Bellel, Florian, 117 Coupe, Minx, Aska technical discussion.
Post Reply
afpreppie04
Learner
Learner
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:54 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico

Starting Issue

Post by afpreppie04 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:30 am

So I'm having some starting issues with my new project '86 Turbo. It will push start just fine, but that is a pain! When I go to key start it the gauges and everything come on, and you can hear the fuel pump (think its the pump, sound is coming from the back around the tank area) but it is a pulsing sound, sort of like a helicopter. Once running from a push start the pump does not make this noise. The radio comes on but no sound comes out, even when tuned to a station I know has reception here. Something similar to this happened on my RX7 when the battery terminals got too corroded so I thought it might be something electrical related, not getting enough voltage around. You cannot hear the starter turning at all.

I took the battery to the local auto parts store and had them check it out. It came back ok so I picked up some new battery terminals since the old ones were pretty corroded. That was last night. So today I went out and put the new terminals on and put the battery back on. Same thing happened when I went to start it. So I swapped out the battery for the one from my RX7, which I know is good. Same thing. Then I discovered you can push a button on the dash and the coolant temp. gauge turns into a voltage gauge :angry2:

So anyways, after I put the original battery back in (again) the gauge says its good too. But still no starting. Any idea where I should check next? I was thinking since the starter is not turning at all I might start there. I guess the speakers/head unit could be blown hence the no sound from stereo. Still not sure about the pump though. I'm going to ask my automotive electronics instructor tonight, just getting some other opinions.

User avatar
wedgenut
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1636
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:39 pm
Location: Hibiscus Coast NZ

Post by wedgenut » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:36 pm

Some basic diagnosis would help. When you turn the key to the start position the starter should turn the motor over, if it doesn't but you hear a clicking noise from the engine bay each time you try you may have a faulty starter motor. If you don't hear any noise then the solenoid on top of the starter may be faulty. There are ways to check this sort of thing but if you ain't familiar enough to have got this far I suggest you get someone with the knowledge to check things out in a methodical way.
You could have a whole heap of things that COULD be the cause, way to many to mention and they would only frighten you anyway. One good thing is that it starts with a push and runs okay. That indicates it is isolated to the starter circuit only so get it checked, it isn't difficult and should not be expensive.

You should add your location to your profile, there may be a friendly owner close to you that could assist.
So many cars, so little cash

User avatar
speedracerles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:16 pm
Location: Port-Charlotte FL

Post by speedracerles » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:37 am

Well Im haveing the same problem with my car, the differents is that when I put the battey in my car it dosent want to start at all, even when I try to push start the car it dosent do anything.
I'll go and put the battery in the car ant the lights and all that will work, the fan to the radiator will come on I think thats the one, but the car wont even turn over I dont know what to do...
I tryed turning the motor by hand with some heavy tools but I couldnt even turn it that way eaither. Let me know what Im missing or what you guys think I should do...
:axe:
Isuzu impulse turbo, my weapon of choice!

User avatar
wedgenut
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1636
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:39 pm
Location: Hibiscus Coast NZ

Post by wedgenut » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:17 pm

your issue sounds much more serious if you can't even rotate the engine with tools! A common Piazza (sorry..impulse) fault is that they have a by pass oil filtration system. What this means is that if changing the oil filter is not done regularly(as it should) and it gets blocked, a bypass valve opensto allow oil to still circulate around the engine. The oil check light comes on as a warning to get it attended to, or at least it should do. On some models the engine check symbol comes on instead i think. Either way the real problem here is that unfiltered oil goes around the engine and turbo tend to carbonise the oil quite quickly so shitty oil can be running around the passages. Unfortunately the passages to the camshaft are quite fine bore and will block easily. The camshaft seizes quite readily with no oil. If you are lucky it will tighten up and the engine will stop and stay stopped never to roate again without repair. Often this will mean a new cam shaft and head or some serious metal spraying and re tunnelling work. usuallly cheaper to get good used parts instead. If you are unlucky the bottom end of the engine wants to keep going and the top end doesn't. End result is the teeth get ripped off the cam belt and with the valves stationary you have a more serious problem.

To explain, there are two types of overhead cam engine, interference and non interference. Non interference means that the opening and closing of exhaust and inlet valves at no time project far enough to intrude into the area of the bore that the piston is travelling in, so if you break a cam belt the engine stops, big deal. No damage. the Piazza however IS an Interference style so if the cam stops moving and the pistons don't there will be an impact of valves against pistons. this can result in broken or at the very least damaged pistons and bent valves.

First thing you have to do is take the top belt cover off and check the condition of the cam belt. You should also take off the cam cover and look for any signs of heat on the bearing caps. Remove the spark plugs as well and then see if you can turn the engine over using the bolt on the front of the crankshaft. With the plugs out it should spin over quite easily. Don't attempt to turn the engine using the camshaft wheel. You will damage it. unless you are technically competent to do a full engine rebuild you probably should seek some help at this point.

hope this helps
So many cars, so little cash

User avatar
speedracerles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:16 pm
Location: Port-Charlotte FL

Post by speedracerles » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:47 pm

This is why I joined this site, I like it when I tell someone what going on with my car and they have an idea of what might be the issue . Im happy to know that theres people that care...LOL

Anywho I will try all of these thing and let you know what I come up with wish me luck...Lord knows Im going to need it...speed :prayer:
Isuzu impulse turbo, my weapon of choice!

User avatar
speedracerles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:16 pm
Location: Port-Charlotte FL

Post by speedracerles » Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:54 pm

I also think I need help with something else too... My 86 impulse has a wierd nosie, almost like a ticking nosie when I drive, I dont know what it might be but someone told me that I might need to get my lifters looked at they said that it was a common problem? I dont know how to do that but I would like to learn if there is someone out there that would be willing to teach...LOL

Other then that I dont know what it could be, I hope its not something serius.... Hit me back with some intel if you will, I'll be waiting... Thanks again
Isuzu impulse turbo, my weapon of choice!

IZU069
Power Moderator
Power Moderator
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Melbourne (Orstralia)

Post by IZU069 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:18 pm

I'd ignore their advice. I have never known lifters to be a problem in the Piazza. In fact, I don't know of any Piazza that has lifters. So unless your Impulses do not run overhead cams like most modern cars do.....

What they may mean is the cam/tappet clearances which is something you can check yourself, else have a decent mechanic check it.
But ticking can also be worn gudgeons (piston bearing; aka small-end) or maybe big ends - a decent mechanic should be able to suggest which.
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

User avatar
wedgenut
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1636
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:39 pm
Location: Hibiscus Coast NZ

Post by wedgenut » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:50 am

OR you may have a bomb in your car, have you been picking up any hitch hikers with big beards and towels on their heads?
So many cars, so little cash

IZU069
Power Moderator
Power Moderator
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Melbourne (Orstralia)

Post by IZU069 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:26 am

Ah! Lifters. I didn't think of that.
And I forgot that towels are a problem over there.
(Should have seen the Remembrance Service/s here yesterday for the bushfire victims - Buddhist/Hindu bells at the end of speeches; heaps of towels; Cath next to Ang next to Sung next to Moha etc. What a joy!)
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

User avatar
speedracerles
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 11:16 pm
Location: Port-Charlotte FL

Post by speedracerles » Sat May 09, 2009 6:20 pm

My 88 impulse is the one that Ive been having the problems with, My clucth pedal is frozen to the floor and I dont know why. I cant get it to free it self. Do you have any thing for me as far as help? I really want to get this thing running soon. thanks :wav:
Isuzu impulse turbo, my weapon of choice!

IZU069
Power Moderator
Power Moderator
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Melbourne (Orstralia)

Post by IZU069 » Sat May 09, 2009 10:18 pm

It's probably hydraulic.
The master cylinder (pedal) had been pushed to the floor and stuck in sludge etc (usually a problem with the brake master as it should normally never go to the floor except when bleeding - hence another reason to bleed every 2 years at most (to replace the fluid) or maybe every 6 or 12 months to remove gunk).

Or it or the slave cylinder (clutch end) (or its hoses etc) have leaked so the pedal sinks to the floor (if the pedal return spring isn't strong enough to lift the pedal - which it should be in a normal system - ie, keep the pedal pressure off the master cylinder).

Recondition the master and slave - clean (hone) the bores, replace the seals, refit & re-bleed. (Pre-bleed the master out of the car before fitting if possible. If hones etc, wash the bores in warm soapy water, then dry and wipe with rubber/brake grease.)
Adjust the clutch so its lever (from slave end into the bell housing) has freeplay (is NOT resting on the clutch plate; should have ~1/8" slop), ensure the lever has a return spring, and do similar for the master (with ~1/8" pedal freeplay etc).

And you should have put this in a new post. Will clutch experts read the starter or starting problem post?
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

User avatar
wedgenut
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1636
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:39 pm
Location: Hibiscus Coast NZ

Post by wedgenut » Sun May 10, 2009 6:57 am

AHA! I have seen this before, most RHD JR models have the clutch master cylinder mounted high on the firewall and NOT in direct line with the pedal. If yours is similar and NOT in direct line with the pedal it is the same and actuated by a a transverse bar. In other words the clutch pedal is attached to the end of a rod that crosses from one side of the steering column to the other side where a lever acts on the master cylinder. If you are with me so far it shouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine what can happen. This cross bar is in a tube with bushes and it can seize. The one I found had seized because the car had been sitting for so long. In my case the pedal had seized in the halfway up position, It had probably got stuck fully up and someone had pressed the pedal down until it wouldn't go any more. I couldn't get it up or down and spraying liberal amounts of CRC didn't help other than to make the carpets wet and smelly. I had to remove the dash to get access and free it up. whatever the case you should check the cylinders anyway but my money is on the crossbar. If you get your head up under the dash and remove the clevis pin from the master cylinder rod you will immediately know if it is hydraulic or this crossbar.
So many cars, so little cash

IZU069
Power Moderator
Power Moderator
Posts: 963
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Melbourne (Orstralia)

Post by IZU069 » Sun May 10, 2009 11:33 am

Do what Wedge said.
Then consider my post....

Thanks Wedge,
I forgot about that! :banghead:
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

Post Reply