Removing the a/c from a 4ZC1-T Turbo Charged Impulse

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Removing the a/c from a 4ZC1-T Turbo Charged Impulse

Post by impulsive » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:43 am

Hi folks,

Do you all down under have the 4ZC1-T motors on any of your Piazzas? Has anyone ever successfully removed the a/c compressor and idler, and wrapped a belt on the outer belt groove of the crank shaft pulley up to the power steering pulley and idler?

I am thinking of pulling the entire a/c setup out of my Impulse to gain space under the hood, loose one of the drive belts giving the motor less work to do, and removing the a/c condenser to give better airflow to the radiator.

Anyone ever do this?

Thanks - Bart
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Post by wedgenut » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:24 pm

Yes indeedy, most don't bother to remove the AC Compressor, when not activated it doesn't take any load anyway, it just runs on the freewheel clutch bearing. Removing it will reduce the weight a bit but little else as the PS Pump is still stuck up in the air so you can't really use the space for anything.

Easier access under the manifold if you need to get to the oil cooler hoses or the temp thermoswitch etc. which is a plus. Shouldn't be a problem running direct from the crank but you will need to watch pulley alignment and space the idler adjuster bracket out or in to suit the belt run.

If it was me I would rip out all the hoses and condenser, disconnect the AC clutch wire and leave the compressor in place. less work and no drama with belts. This assumes the Compressor idler bearing is still in good order of course.
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Post by impulsive » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:55 am

wedgenut wrote:Yes indeedy, most don't bother to remove the AC Compressor, when not activated it doesn't take any load anyway, it just runs on the freewheel clutch bearing. Removing it will reduce the weight a bit but little else as the PS Pump is still stuck up in the air so you can't really use the space for anything.
Right, I just like to "make room" under the hood. Its easier to keep things clean and easier to get your mittens into tight spaces.
wedgenut wrote:Shouldn't be a problem running direct from the crank but you will need to watch pulley alignment and space the idler adjuster bracket out or in to suit the belt run.
Can you elaborate a little here? Are you just saying that if my idler isn't in the right spot it might cause a problem for the belt to turn properly?
wedgenut wrote:If it was me I would rip out all the hoses and condenser, disconnect the AC clutch wire and leave the compressor in place.
So by doing this, you are leaving the compressor there just disconnecting its power source so all it does is free spin?

Thanks for the reply.

Bart

PS - I love your sig, couldn't be more true. I have 4 cars. The Impulse, a 2001 VehiCROSS, and a 91 Trooper (Jackaroo to you boys). AND, I also own a 1976 XC Falcon Coupe that I was going to build into a Mad Max replica. Its totally stuffed and I am actually trying to sell at the moment. I've decided its too big a project for my bank account.
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Post by wedgenut » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:57 am

Can you elaborate a little here? Are you just saying that if my idler isn't in the right spot it might cause a problem for the belt to turn properly?
Correct. In standard arrangement there are two tensioner, one for the lower or primary belt driving the rear AC pulley sheave and the upper one for the front PS sheave. Even if you get a big long belt to go from the crank up to the PS pump, will it line up? Probably not. Evern if it does I'm not sure either idelr will be in the right position or have the adjustment range to do the job. If you simply pull the bullet connect apart that sits on top of the AC Comp the job is done. Clutch can't enage, no load at any time.
So by doing this, you are leaving the compressor there just disconnecting its power source so all it does is free spin?
Exactly right, easy peasy. You can still remove all the other junk.
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Post by impulsive » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:06 am

wedgenut wrote:Correct. In standard arrangement there are two tensioner, one for the lower or primary belt driving the rear AC pulley sheave and the upper one for the front PS sheave. Even if you get a big long belt to go from the crank up to the PS pump, will it line up?
This is what gave me the idea to begin with. Have a look here:

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See the crankshaft pulley? See how it has an additional belt groove on the outside? From the look of things, that outer belt groove should line up with the power steering pulley and associated idler. So, you would need a new belt of a different length that goes up to the ps pulley and around the idler. That is what I was thinking. This way, you can remove the a/c compressor and its idler.
wedgenut wrote:Probably not. Evern if it does I'm not sure either idelr will be in the right position or have the adjustment range to do the job.
This would be my only concern. I'm sure I could find a belt of the right length, but would it work? What strikes me as funny, is that the crankshaft pulley has that outer groove. Its almost as if this option was meant to be there. Perhaps some Piazzas/Impulses came without a/c and this is how it was set up? Or is that just wishful thinking? Man, I was really hoping someone out there already did this. I don't like being the guinea pig... :rolleyes:

Bart
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Post by wedgenut » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:28 pm

I could probably have a look for you, I have a complete spare engine sitting on a stand so I will check out what the line up is like on the weekend and let you know, it will be easy to check it out not being in a running car.
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Post by impulsive » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:40 am

Wedge, that would be AWESOME. I know the belt groove on the crankshaft pulley will line up with the power steering pulley, I'm just on the fence about the idler being in the right spot for everything to work.

THANKS!!!!

Bart
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Post by wedgenut » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:55 pm

Righto, it should work. I dropped the ac comp off my spare engine for a clear look at it. I didn't have a belt long enough for a trial so I just used a piece of 8mm rope. (5/16" for our GI Joe's) The unused outside pulley DOES line up nicely wth the PS pulley, The PS adjuster idler pulley DOES seem to have enough upward travel to interfere with the straight line between pulleys so should perform the adjustment required. So go for it, whether this is by accident or design I don't know, I have never seen a Piazza (sorry..impulse) without AC but maybe it was optional in some markets like Tibet or Outer Gibrovia wherever that is. I can't think of any other reason for having the extra pulley stuck out front so perhaps it is design. I know the very early AC systems did not have a low pressure cut out and if you lost gas pressure in the system the oil would travel out of the compressor and it would shit itself big time spreading shards of metal through the system and of course you would smoke the primary belt and lose Power steering. Maybe they changed it once they sorted that problem. Interestingly the G200Z engined JR130 models don't have a low pressure cut out and so do from time to time shit themselves in the aforementioned manner. The AC is not involved with the PS or anything else on that model so it doesn't matter. Apart from the cost of fixing it of course. :partyman:
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Post by impulsive » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:05 am

Wedge, thanks so much for doing this. So I guess the only problem now is finding a new belt that is the right length. Pretty cool.

Yesterday I took the radiator into the shop and they told me it was junk, rusting through at the bottom. Nice. Now I need to locate a decent used radiator!

Anyway, thanks again for checking that for me. That saves me a big headache. I'll be sure to post more as I go along.

:) Bart
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Post by wedgenut » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:53 am

Get an aluminium one made, I got a very similar sized on from another car brand new and got the top tank altered to suit. Problem gone and didn't cost any more than getting a new core in my old one.

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In case anyone is interewsted it was a Holden Commodore VP or VL from Memory. $200 for the new rad and $100 to get the top tank altered, bottom tank was perfect
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Post by impulsive » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:16 am

Well, it looks like I can get a new one for about $200. So we'll see. I may end up doing that.

Bart
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Post by IZU069 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:21 am

Hmmm - I was discussing Ally radiators the other day...
Mocking a forummer that liked their "proof" (as published on an Al-Rad company's site LOL!).
Discussing the extra weight of extra coolant.
The need for >50% coolant concentration.
The 2 deeper cores versus 3 copper cores.
Conductivity of Al versus Cu.
Shiny versus black (or "copper").


But for the same price, or cheaper... that's different.

Just keep up the coolant concentration. Please!
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

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Post by wedgenut » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:33 am

I have since removed it from the car, I came accross a standard one and the car was being sold so I ripped out the Ally one before it went. It now rests comfortably in my man cave waiting for another day. It is set up for a G200 so while it will drop in to a turbo car and the bottom hose will line up, the top hose is different, but not by much. Universal hoses fix everything
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Post by impulsive » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:30 am

Hey lads, check this out:

"You will need to get a longer belt for the power steering because of the increased deck height. I removed the air conditioning compressor when I did the swap; to do this you need to use the outermost groove on the crankshaft pulley to run the power steering pump along with a different belt. You will not be able to adjust the tension on the belt much, but a 45” belt just fit on the pulleys and required little adjustment for accurate tension."

Just happened to read this tid-bit while reading about an engine swap here:

http://www.isuzuperformance.com/isupage ... ap2.6.html

So it looks like even more proof that my idea to remove the a/c compressor will work!! Sweet!

Here is where I am with the rebuild right now:

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Looks like I am going to need some sort of puller for this bit over the crankshaft.

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And a link to my thread on Isuzone.org for all who might be interested.

http://www.isuzone.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22593

Hope you all down under had a nice New Years.

Bart
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Post by wedgenut » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:58 am

The pulley boss isn't usually that tight so a couple of M6 bolts and a piece of flat bar accross the front with a spacer to the centre and it will come off.
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