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Odyssey PC680 - under 15 lbs and can be mounted anyway except upside down.

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680.htm



I bought this a while ago to put in my fwd car but was slacking & then didn't want to risk installing it over winter so I waited. and then I got my JR. the battery that came in it was a monstrosity, freaking huge and heavy as all hell - the thing was even larger than the Optima red top I run in my Jackaroo!

the tiny size frees up plenty of space and best of all makes for a nice potential path from a front mount intercooler:



still need to rig up something to keep it fastened down.

That might be a little small. Is it rated for a car????

Two things,
The alternator might cook it.
The starter motor drain might kill it.

I would say it would have a shorter life than a decent sized battery.

Is it one of those flash gel batteries????


You have a PM about something else.

Bob.

I started noticing many of the magazine project cars were running them, some with even larger motors. it came with auto terminals, and in the info papers it has some stuff about using it in no-alternator race cars and proper recharging.

The alternator might cook it.

thats the only thing I'm not sure about. according to the papers it states that exceeding 15V charge will open up the pressure valves and outgas and shorten the life. what kind of output does the stock alt give?

The starter motor drain might kill it.

I installed it after putting together a bunch of crap I took aprt (plenum,etc) changing out hoses and loose electrical connectors. this battery sat in a box for the last year never used. I must have cranked this thing well over a dozen times while trying to get the car restarted. for sure I figured I'd kill it.

after fussing with things and making sure a few connections were snug(they weren't) it fired up first twist of the key, no hesitation. i was very impressed.

Stock alt puts out between 13.8V to 14.4V i think, rob might know more.

Nick-

thats the only thing I'm not sure about. according to the papers it states that exceeding 15V charge will open up the pressure valves and outgas and shorten the life. what kind of output does the stock alt give?

An alternator is a very basic piece of unsmart kit and it will chuck out as much as it can unless it is controlled. That is why regulators are used (usually internal) and almost always limited to 14.7v max. If you throw even a very cheap multi meter across the battery terminals and start the car you will get the voltage reading. At idle it will be pretty low and stable if the battery is well charged. If the battery is low it will be putting out a bit more. That is why you can't really test an alt properly with a fully charged battery. As you increase the revs you would normally see the voltage climb and top out at 14.7 or less. If you start switching things on like heated rear windows, main beams, heater blowers etc the alternater will step up to try and keep charging voltage stable. If you switched them all off at the same instant you may get a momentary spike of high output but you would have to be very quick or have a peak measuring recorder. Nothing to worry about unless your regulator is stuffed.

In other words the regulator should prevent any over voltage problem. I've seen these teeny weeny penny anty batteries in some big grunters and they are pretty amazing but cost here is about a bazillion bucks as they are only imported to order. More common on total loss systems and snowmobiles as they are very good at low temp apparantly.

Id say you would be as safe as on any vehicle.

The battery on my old motorbike got cooked the regulator/rectifier shat itself and at full revs it was pumping out over 25V

Bob.

Yeah a bracket would be a good idea

The obsession continues unabated. LOL

Yeah you were all expecting it couldn't let you down

umm but the question still is, why put in a smaller battery? Car is not gonna go much faster with it, a stereo system would drain this thing quicker than the altenator can charge it.

small weight savings plus opens a perfect path for piping from a front mount intercooler.

I don't have a stereo system in mine, nor will I install one.

Too late? Maybe handy FYI?

The Odyssey battery shown is a type that is commonly(?) called AGM (Absorbant Glass Mat), recombination, etc etc. These are NOT lead-acid, NiCad, Gel etc. They are zero maintenance in terms of adding water etc (they are "dry").

In theory they are a perfect battery for cars etc EXCEPT that they do not tolerate overvoltage nor undervoltage. Many years ago, Exide released the "TorqueStarter" batteries which were the of same type. They recalled them after about 12 months due to failures (exchanging them for lead-acid types). The reason was that many vehicles would charge > 14.5V, or the battery would be discharged below acceptable limits (about 10.5V - or 1.75V per cell (6 cells) from memory).

I was heavily involved in batteries for Telco systems some 15 years ago. We'd typically use these AGM types for UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) systems. (Back then lead-acids were common; these days AGMs are almost always used).
I remember the general principles though some details are sketchy (eg, charge rates).

Ideally AGMs are recharged using "constant current" (25% of C10 capacity I think) but not above 14.5V. Above this, the battery could be harmed. In severe cases, a runaway thermal overload would occur (I've seen a 400V bank of 12V AGM blocks with totally distorted cases!).

AGMs have no "loose acid". Instead they have an "acid-soaked" gauze or mat that surround the lead (or whatever) elements. Break an AGM's case and they may still hold charge for a day or two.

There brilliance is lower internal resistance than other (lead acid) batteries. Hence the Odyssey 680 - a mere 16AH (@ C10 rate) battery much smaller than a Piazza/Impulse etc car battery - has a CCA (cranking capacity) of about 250A (compared to say 440A for a normal Piazza battery).

They are great for high-discharge applications (engine starting). They also have excellent storage capability (unused lead-acids should be charged at (say) no more than 3 month intervals; AGMs can survive more than 6 to 12 months without top-up).
They're probably the best battery for audio-buffs with big power demands and crap all over any lead-acid battery with OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) leads, gold-plated terminals and any other associated accessories as flogged to most hi-spending audio suckers (noting some exceptions to my generalisation!).

If an AGM battery is dischared, it must be recharged quickly to avoid damage (lead-acids are nowhere near as critical).

Exact details vary with manufacturer and the exact type of construction. For example, for Odyssey, see http://www.aeroparts.com.au/odyssey_air ... rom_ae.htm - note the claimed >1,800A short-circuit current for the 16AH Odyssey 680!
Note - DO NOT short-circuit AGM-type batteries (as a PC hard-disk found out when dropped on my UPS's 12V AGM battery) - normal car batteries are bad enough!
See also http://www.odysseybatteries.com/charging.htm. Google etc will have other good battery refs for those interested, but even I have been ... er ... confused by all the info.

Whilst AGMs are not "publicly released" for auto applications because of the above, many find them terrific for bikes, cars etc despite the harsh charging and discharge conditions.

Even I was impressed when a mate went to his old 1967 Isuzu Bellett - untouched and standing idle for 2 years with its still connected, 10 year old (since it was obtained second-hand!) AGM battery - and started the Bellett within seconds! (It was a Gates 40AH type; new cost about AUD$240 in 1990.) And I'm lucky to pull 4 years from good lead-acid batteries! (PS - "WITHOUT PREJUDICE" - stay away from Apollo batteries unless they have improved in the past cople of years.)

I have some scavenged-for-free Yuasa 38AH and SBS 40AH AGMs that I may use in my Piazza and Isuzus. If AGMs survived my mate's 1960's mechanical-voltage-regulator'd Bellett, it's worth a try!

Generally, AGMs can be used in any orientation (including up-side-down). If not for their initial expense and the complications above, I'm sure all vehicles would use them. Maybe when we convert to switched (stator) alternators or 48V car systems?

Note too that the smaller AH capacity is not a problem provided it can crank (CCA) say 100A for starting; that accessories/loads are not supplied for a long time without adequate alternator charging (the AH capacity at a certain discharge rate (C1, C10, C20 etc) determines this), and that the alternator adequately handles any load (once recharged after starting, the alternator supplies all required power - the battery merely acts as a "reserve" (like a capacitor) when loads are switched on/off until the regulator etc respond (eg, a car without a battery usually stalls if indicators or stop lights are used; PS - do not run an alternator without a battery unless some 12-14V "reference" is provided to stop the alternator output rising and frying any loads!).

More bluddy ramblings from me! And to think I've responded to a Septic inquiry! (Just stirring - I have to keep up my Ozzie pretence!)

I'd be interested in how the Odyssey 680 fares in a Piazza. 16AH seems a bit small, but.....

Cheers,
Peter (IZU069)

Hey pete, where you been????

Just think all the effort you put into tapping that out could have got your Piazza going.


Bob.

Peter, lots of info - thanks!

the car hasn't really been driven, but was subject to much driveway jockeying while I was coating my garage floor. always fired up immediately, faster response than the original battery.

it'll be a while until I get to find out how it holds up to higher temps and real road driving but I'll be sure to post up.

Small world! Yesterday I dropped in on a reputable vintage vehicle restorer where a fellow Bellettian works.
Alas he wasn't there, but I spotted an Odyssey 1200 or 2400 battery in an old Peugot.

Apparently such AGM batteries are popular because the their vehicles are rarely used but the batteries maintain charge and provide excellent cranking - even after several months or a year etc.

This is consistent with what I said above - though I hadn't specifically thought of it in terms of collector's or club vehicles - ie those that are left untouched for ages like "club cars", fair-weather Harley riders etc.

The catch is the price. The dude thought the Odyssey cost about AUD$500! You can get five "normal" batteries for that (Maintenance-free heavy-duty Piazza/Impulse batteries cost me about $85)! (Let's see, USD$1 = AUD$2,362, hence AUD$500 = US$0.23c. Ha - forgive my local humor - it's more like $1 = 75c yankee, hence about $400 in US bucks.)

But $500 is cheaper than spending say $100 per year replacing normal lead-acids that havent been charged for 6-12 months.

I also read that these batteries are considered okay for cars etc, though this may have been an advertorial, and was also in comparison to alternatives like NiCads, gel-cells etc. (A mate had a 12V NiCad (wet cell) in his MotoGuzzi LeMans motorbike for 10 years before his brother took the bike & stacked it! I can't imagine an Italian stallion having a battery-friendly charging system - I know my old Ducati wasn't - but I reckon getting 4 years from service a normal non-original batteries in a car is pretty good!).

Anyhow, for what it's worth.....
Cheers. Peter.