interchangable distributors

petrie · Post by **petrie** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:36 pm

hey guys my names julian i have recently bought a gem with a piazza turbo and i know that most people that ask these soughts of question usually get shut down but i'm in a bit of trouble. i have changed my computer in my gemini recently and now that ive gone to get it tuned ive found that it's breaking down under load and when i checked the cap it had cracks through it ive read the post i could find about the distributors but havn't queit found my answer yet ive found that i carn't get any caps for the dizzy anymore but afer reading rodeobob's post about dizzy's i learn't that you can change dizzy with a rodeo i'm just wondering if this is true and if anyone can give me specs on the dizzy i need to go and find and what steps are involve in fitting if i have to change anything or not. i'm trying to get it done asap because my car is stuck in the shop not running and i have to get to work and home which is an hour drive. i think the engine code is a 4cz1. sorry to bring the same subjects up again but i just didn't get what a was after in the other posts.

GeminiCoupe · Post by **GeminiCoupe** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:03 pm

A dizzy cap off a Holden Shuttle 4ZB1 will fit on the 4ZC1 dizzy. You may need longer leads as the cap is slightly different.

The Rodeo dizzy spoken of is off a 4ZE1 and it is a Crank Angle Sensor dizzy. Obviously this is ALOT better as you can run the car in fuel and ignition mode [something that cant be done using a 4ZC1 dizzy]. The dizzy goes straight in however you will need to make changes to your computer and possibly some wiring changes.

Nick-

petrie · Post by **petrie** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:09 pm

thanks i will try that tomorrow
if anyone else has other adlternatives to my problem it would be great to hear them so i can have a few option to try tomorrow

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:15 pm

petrie wrote:hey guys my names julian i have recently bought a gem with a piazza turbo and i know that most people that ask these soughts of question usually get shut down but i'm in a bit of trouble. i have changed my computer in my gemini recently and now that ive gone to get it tuned ive found that it's breaking down under load and when i checked the cap it had cracks through it ive read the post i could find about the distributors but havn't queit found my answer yet ive found that i carn't get any caps for the dizzy anymore but afer reading rodeobob's post about dizzy's i learn't that you can change dizzy with a rodeo i'm just wondering if this is true and if anyone can give me specs on the dizzy i need to go and find and what steps are involve in fitting if i have to change anything or not. i'm trying to get it done asap because my car is stuck in the shop not running and i have to get to work and home which is an hour drive. i think the engine code is a 4cz1. sorry to bring the same subjects up again but i just didn't get what a was after in the other posts.

I wouldnt have posted it up if it wasnt true fella.
Buy a 2.6L (4ZE1) distributor and put it in. If you need a plug, the one off a VL Commodore or R31 Skyline with the RB230 motor is the same.
The 2.6l distributor works on a totally different principal and wont work with the std Piazza ecu. The 2.6L distributor is Photoelectric, it uses an LED light signal thats interupted by a disc to generate on off signals. It has no advance and that needs to be controlled buy the ECU that reads the on off signals.
The Piazza distributor is magnetic and has an inbuilt advance mechanisim. It operates seperately from the ECU.

So if your motor uses the std computer to run it you will need to upgrade to a fuel and spark aftermarket ECU or add a spark computer to work the 2.6L Rodeo distributor.

Perhaps you could use one of these caps
http://isuzupiazza.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251 if youve got the engine bay room.
Or you could buy a new Piazza cap from a Holden dealer for $100+.

Cheers. Rob.

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:21 pm

Nick beat me to it. lol

By Piazza ECU i mean any fuel only ecu.

What ECU did you change too???? If its fuel and spark definately get the 2.6L Dizzy and take advantage of what it offers.

You can get new Distributor caps from the USA for the 2.6L Distributor. I was told that they are a Holden only part but i think Bosch or someone make the rotor buttons which are available locally.

I havent yet sourced the Piazza cap from OS, the ones in the US used a different cap as their motors used the I-tec fuel and spark EFI system we got the ECGI fuel only. They used a different distributor.

Cheers. Bob.

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:17 am

GeminiCoupe wrote:A dizzy cap off a Holden Shuttle 4ZB1 will fit on the 4ZC1 dizzy. You may need longer leads as the cap is slightly different.

The Rodeo dizzy spoken of is off a 4ZE1 and it is a Crank Angle Sensor dizzy. Obviously this is ALOT better as you can run the car in fuel and ignition mode [something that cant be done using a 4ZC1 dizzy]. The dizzy goes straight in however you will need to make changes to your computer and possibly some wiring changes.

Nick-

You should be able to use a standard 4ZC1 distributor with an ignition computer if you remove the mechanical timing control bits.I know megasquirt can work with a variable reluctor dizzy.

GeminiCoupe · Post by **GeminiCoupe** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:33 pm

Alot easier to just grab a 4ZE1 dizzy and throw it in.

Nick-

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:06 pm

Does the 4ZE1 use the CAS as a distributor as well or do you need a coil wired up to each cyl?

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:07 pm

Bugle wrote:Does the 4ZE1 use the CAS as a distributor as well or do you need a coil wired up to each cyl?

Distributor, its got a cap on it.

Delivery Boy · Post by **Delivery Boy** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:29 pm

I must say the users arent as plentiful or as active but a hella lot more helpful on here.

On the topic of distributors, whats the difference between a car that runs multiple coils compared to using a 4ze1 dizzy? is it possible to set the e1 dizzy up to do this? and whats the advantages?

also, this looks like its already been answered, can you get a spark only ECU to control the spark seperate to the fuel computer? looks like a yes reading previous posts which leads me to my next post.

are there any reputable spark computers avail? what brands should i be looking at/searching for...

thanks

Daniel

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:37 pm

Yeah thats cos the Piazza is a real mans car. Not a boy toy for the children like the Gemini.

MSD is one of few that make spark only ecu's.

For my money id just buy a fuel and spark ecu.

The E1 dizzy has a disc in it. Its got 180 slots in it a few mm in from the outer edge. Thats 360 switches on/off/on/etc to count the degrees.
On a smaller diameter circle inside the one for the slots theres four holes, one for each cyl. I dont see any reason why if your ecu can read it that these slots cant be used to fire coil packs. The Ecu needs to have more than one coil output wire to trigger multiple coils. So you would need 2 and just use wasted spark.

I will see if i can get a pic. If i do it will be posted up in the tech section.

Bob.

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:01 am

I got this pic off ebay

Delivery Boy · Post by **Delivery Boy** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:09 am

yeah i know what they look like, seen pizza's and my g series gemini has a crane cams XR700 which kinda looks like that...

hmmm, def gonna have to get one of them...

rodavo · Post by **rodavo** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:00 am

Bob,

Seeing as though you know heaps about Rodeo's.....

I am about to install a Motec M4 in my Piazza using the 4ZE1 dizzy for the ref and sync signals. What I am trying to work out is what ignition setup the Rodeo's ran and how the Rodeo computers sensed the engines exact position (if at all) using the slots as shown in the pic above. On many Nissan motors, the slots towards the centre of the disc would have 1 slot that is different in size to the others so that when this slot was 'read' the computer would know exactly where the engine position was each revolution. Looking at the 4ZE1 disc, the 4 slots in the middle are all the same. I am guessing that the rodeo ecu runs a batch fire injection setup with the rotor button and cap being in charge of the distribution of spark. Is this correct?

If so, looks like I will have to make my own disc so that the computer can reference the engines exact position.

Thanks

Dave

GeminiCoupe · Post by **GeminiCoupe** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:19 am

am guessing that the rodeo ecu runs a batch fire injection setup with the rotor button and cap being in charge of the distribution of spark. Is this correct?

Pretty sure thats right, 100% right on the rotor and cap.

On many Nissan motors, the slots towards the centre of the disc would have 1 slot that is different in size to the others so that when this slot was 'read' the computer would know exactly where the engine position was each revolution. Looking at the 4ZE1 disc, the 4 slots in the middle are all the same.

Bit of a stab in the dark but im assuming it would have to do with timing. My guess is that the engine is timed to TDC with the distributor set with one of the slots at "tdc" [ie. Slot is where the sensor would read it]. Computer is told 4cyl, slots 90deg apart and goes from there. My take on things anyway.

Nick-

interchangable distributors

interchangable distributors

Re: interchangable distributors