oil pouring out the breather?

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:19 am

Yes i know these problems never stop, as i said in my last post i gave up on my old engine and just bough another complete from an importing lot, When it has been going great, never heard since a smooth running piazza, till the other day. Drove it for 4 hrs straight sitting on about 120 all the way, didnt miss a beat got to wear i was going and cooled it down turned it off. The next day started it to continue back home and as soon as it started i could hear a miss, knowing i was in the middle of no where i decided to drive it home. At first there was just a small miss at idle but 40km's into the trip she started to get really smokey. Before i knew it there was oil coming out the breather for the rocker oil pouring out the exhaust oil everywhere. managed to get the car home using another 4litres of oil and though it was just a turbo had done it's seal. Well i have changed the turbo and it is still smoking real bad and mainly out of the rocker cover breather?????
Going to do a compresion test as soon as i get a guage, but any idea's would help. Everybody keeps telling me that it sounds like it dropped a ring but i cant see how it can be going great then just shit itself over night?
cheers Brendan

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:19 pm

crap, not good mate. Still has full water? When checking the oil, what colour is it? Brown? Black? Has it got a burn smeel to it?

Turbo still and holding boost/ing ok?

While engine running, hold a screw driver against each cyliender and put your ear on the handle and look out for knocking noises or other abnormal once.

Check Rocket cover seal, rear main seal...

That should keep you busy

Post by **wedgenut** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:03 pm

The rocker breather should have an oil separator box, the fumes go into the box, oil mist is trapped and runs out the return line down a hose through the manifold tree into the sump, pure vapour then goes on to enter the inlet tube back at where it bends away from the AFM. Are you sure your separator isn't blocked or piped wrong? Compression test is a good idea but don't rule out a piston problem. I had one with identical symptoms and one of the pistons had a huge crack in it, silly thing is it ran on all four fine but smoked like an old falcon. I would be letting the seller of the engine know real fast that you have a problem and let them diagnose the problem and fix or get your dough back or another engine.

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:04 pm

no i have undone the top of the sepaerator thing to check that and it is pouring oil out of that breather like no 2 morrow, also lots of smoke out the exhaust. The engine only had 1 month warranty and guess what, it is up!

Engine holding boost fine, not getting hot, no noisyes just a miss and lots and los of smoke, the smoke starts coming out of the rocker cover 5 seconds after the engine has been started and does not stop. if you put your finger over it it builds up pressure. oil is black but does not last long, burns it real quick.

Post by **wedgenut** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:26 pm

Are you sure the turbo you fitted is okay, if the seal ring on the turbine end is gone exhaust gas may blow down the drain into the sump and pressurise it. If you are confident it isn't turbo related then you must have done a piston or rings, compression check would be first course of action for sure.

mickyt · Post by **mickyt** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:07 pm

Cracked piston?

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:52 pm

sorry took so long been on holiday the last week. Got home from work today and did the compression test things didnt look good
1=50psi
2=150psi
3=150psi
4=155psi
so it looks like big problems in no 1
Hopeing that the head has cracked or valve related, got a spare head but no spare good engines, going to ring api engine's 2 morrow (where i bough it) but dont think that will do much good as it only had 1 month warranty. Dont see how it could be a piston ring as the car was going fine then all of a sudden it started to miss, and i was just driving it not thrashing it at all.
I Think it is the end of the road for piazza's for me once she is going again i will be selling it to fund a more frendly car

Post by **wedgenut** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:33 pm

It will almost certainly be a cracked piston and to be honest i think you were sold a pup. The 4zc1 engine is a strong engine but you don't know the history of a used engine and I guess someone has abused it and you have paid the price. I had one like that so to be safe i changed all four pistons and it has never missed a beat since.

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:17 pm

if it was to be a cracked piston, would this be seen be removing the head or would the piston have to be removed?
cheers
Brendan

Post by **wedgenut** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:15 pm

Usually won't see anything from above, the crack will most probably be down the side and maybe around the oil ring groove. This is why you are getting some compression and excess crankcase pressure. In most cases it doesn't damage the bore. you might even get away with just sticking in one piston but weigh it first and compare with another in the car. If within 5-10 grams it should be fine. If you haven't got accurate enoguh scales take them along to a chemist and ask him nicely to weigh them for you. might pay to put them in plastic bags first as they don't like oil and carbon all over their medicine scales.

Someone will have some spare ones, i'm sure i have a few of different grades and weights, some with rings as well.

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:25 pm

rang the import people today, told me that the engine was out of waaranty but they will help if they can. guess when i strip it down i will c what is wrong. before i went any further they wanted a wet compression tes so did that. no 1 cylinder went from 50 to 70psi in a wet test.
The guy at the rebuilder was certin that it would just be a stcky valve, didnt matter what i said
so 50 to 70 psi, would that justifie having a broken piston or ring?

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:32 pm

Last time I wet tested an engine with a broken ring it went from 50psi to over 100. Guess that could vary alot though.. How does a valve problem cause heaps of blowby?

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:09 am

i was hopeing that the blow by was caused by a cracked head, but i was only guessing and hopeing it was not more serious. Yeah i though i would have got a higher reading doing the wet test but hey it is a piazza and all i can really do is guess till i get the head off this weekend.

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:34 am

Do you have a compressor?????

you need to gerry up a leakdown tester.

Basically something you can screw in a spark plug hole. IE: a spark plug. DOH. You want the threaded part with the hole down the middle.

You need to attach something to that so you can pressurise the cylinder. Something like a tyre valve. that way you can monitor how much pressure.

Put some pressure in the cylinder, the listen carefully round the motor to figure out where the air is getting out.

Like has been said, 99% sure it ring related, but it doesnt hurt to check.

Could be a valve stem seal/ wont close valve. You do have back pressure in the exhaust being turbo.
Wouldnt hurt to pull the vavle cover off and check the valve clearances.

My mate had his Rodeo here the other day all sik and sad. 125-120-00-30. Thought id better check the vavle clerances before i got to carried away and ripped the head off to do a head gasket that had burnt out between cyl 3 and 4. Lucky i did. Just backed the valves way off and did a re test. 150-125-90-130, at 350,000kms and never been pulled apart i figured a new timing belt and back to commuter duty would be fine.

You could rebuild the bottom end no drama. If its a stockie motor and your not going to give it the jazz, just put Shuttle Bus pistons in it. Everything 2L Shuttle Bus will work. On the odd chance it does ping, run premium fuel. I highly doubt it would ping/knock. Or go buy a Shuttle bus motor and fit that.

Cheers, Bob.

Post by **wedgenut** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:33 pm

Here is a picture of a typical type of piston break that will cause the excess crank pressure as the break is above the top ring and through to the underside of the piston. car will still run quite well and on this car there were two like this and the compressions were not too bad

http://ozisu.com/photobucket/piston.jpg