CLUTCH!!!! The Curse continues

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Chris
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CLUTCH!!!! The Curse continues

Post by Chris » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:45 pm

My clutch leaver, the part from the clutch paddle connecting at the end of the pipe that connects to the Clutch rod going threw the firewall has snapped. F me how that happened. Anyway, so I re welded the the arm but now I found out why it broke in the first place. I really don't understand why the clutch is stuck. I had no problems with it. It suddenly happened. No movement in the clutch what so ever. Any ideas?

Self conclusion, if this requires me to take out my gear box again, than this will be my 6th and last piazza. I give up!
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Chris
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Post by Chris » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:49 pm

Coming to think of it. I got a Can of Petrol that I can pour over it, than set it on fire, however I will remove my $2 Vanilla Air Freshener first and than do my reckoning. It be like poltergeist all over again in my back yard!

BE GONE YOU DEMON!!!! :supz: :supz: :axe:
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Chris
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Post by Chris » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:20 am

On a third note, before I perform my poltergeist ritual, could the problem be clutch fluid. Would that really cause the peddle to be stiff. But seriously that wouldn't cause the arm to brake off.


Using Alex Pic:

Image

If that is the reason than how can you tell if you have clutch fluid and how do you refill it?
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Rodeobob
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Post by Rodeobob » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:17 am

See under the piviot thing circled there is a hole in the mounting bracket, The edge of the circle goes through it. Theres another above and outside the circle. Are they still good?? I have seen them rusted and busted off. If they are not bolted to the firewall it might be flexing.

If its all bent and twisted and shit ive got a couple here.



The clutch fluid reservior is under the bonnet, i think its up behind the coil blower motor sorta area. Its on a bracket with a hose that goes to the clutch master cylinder.



If i were you i would be removing the blower motor etc so you can get at the master cyl. Remove the master cylinder and slave cylinder and take them both to a car parts joint and try and get brand new ones. Failing that take them to a brake place and get them pulled down and see if they can be rekitted with new rubbers. The internals should be the same as a Shuttle or a TF Rodeo. The Shuttle or TF slave cyl will fit but the hose might not work as the body of the Piazza one is angled. I can check the Shuttle master cylinder tomorrow and see if it is the same as the Piazza one, it has a remove fluid reservoir too. The rodeo one does not.


Also if the pushrod out of the master cylinder is not adjusted propperly you could be pushing the pedal to the floor and bottoming the fork, with hard leg pressure this could load up that linkage.

Its been welded before?? Do you or whoever actually know how to weld??? Could be a series of crappy welds thats causing your drama.


The pedal on a Piazza should not be heavy. Unless youve got some monster racing clutch.

Bob.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

Currently unemployed. Watch this space.

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Rodeobob
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Post by Rodeobob » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:18 am

And dont sell your Piazza you Idiot. You know you will just end up buying another one.

Just suck it up like a princess and get it sorted.


Bob.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

Currently unemployed. Watch this space.

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Post by IZU069 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:50 am

Ditto.
And I find welds do not last on bits like that - only a good oxy job does.
But replace the assembly....

PS - underfilled hydraulics should go to the floor. If fluid isn't not refreshed, it could seize (like brakes; brake&clutch fluid is hydroscopic (whatever....) and should be replaced every 2 years). I generally bleed my system at least once a year to get gunk (& air) out of cylinders (mainly the brakes).
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.

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Chris
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Post by Chris » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:19 am

I assume it is this one. And its full.

Image
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by IPTOC » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:27 pm

Chris, check that the clutch master and slave cylinders are still free. Unbolt the clutch slave cylinder from the gearbox but leave it connected and get someone to push the clutch pedal down 1/3 of the way to see if the slave cylinder operates.

If all is well there you can pretty much guarantee this is either a problem with the release arm coming off of its ball stud in the bell housing and getting stuck or (more unlikely) something has gotten into the bell housing and jammed the clutch cover. Is the release arm rubber gaiter still in place?
1988 Isuzu Piazza HBL Auto - Ebony Black
1988 Isuzu Piazza HBL Manual - Romanesque Silver
1851 Cellar chock full of Isuzu spares!!

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Post by wedgenut » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt wore it out and got a tattoo of it on my arse.
The bit that has let go is a common Piazza fault. the pivot plate is only welded on one side, and the guy who was using the mig that day had not enough amps going so no penetration and is therefore a weak point. The normal situation is that either the the master or slave cylinder seizes up with rust and crap and can't move. along comes a beefy big German foot and the weak point lets go. Easy to check if the problem is mechanical at the clutch fork. take out the two bolts holding the slave cylinder and drop it out of the way. Stick a pair of vice grips on the fork and give it a shove, (Towards the rear of the car obviously) you should be able to apply enough pressure to operate the clutch release. While the slave is off undo the bleed nipple and check the pushrod is free to move. If they are both okay your master cylinder will be stuck. rip it off and unstuck it. Or take it as Bob said to some professional cylinder unstuckers.
Here is another tip for fee and for nothing. When you refit the master cylinder to the firewall make damn sure you seal it well where it goes through. Other wise when it rains you will get a wet foot as the scuttle drain tube empties right above the master cylinder.

PS I hope you welded both sides when you refitted it?
So many cars, so little cash

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Post by Rodeobob » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:57 pm

Thats the one Chris.


Does this thing drive at all???

Ive got a new slave cyl here as a spare for my Piazza.
Theres a master cyl or two floating around as well. Not sure if any of them are any good.



Bob.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

Currently unemployed. Watch this space.

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Chris
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Post by Chris » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:58 pm

Bob yeah, well it starts but It clutch is that stiff so I can't get it into gear at all.

I've re welded the arm on both sides

Image


But now I have problems even getting it back onto the shaft go figure. And I don't want to take the whole paddle assembly out. I did get it on half way though so I reconnected the arm with the clutch but still I can only push the pedal down a centimeter. If I push it hard than the whole Clutch thing here moves

Image


By new slave cyl you mean this one I need to take out?

Image
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Chris
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Post by Chris » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:29 pm

I just went under her. I can push the clutch in from the cyl easy but when I do, oil comes out of it.

Image


So do I need a new cyl now?
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by wedgenut » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:04 pm

You probably only need a seal kit for the slave cylinder but if the pedal won't move at all and the slave cylinder is free then the master cylinder must be seized. You did check you can move the clutch fork back and release the clutch by hand? It will take some effort but as I aid earlier a pair of vice grips on it and you should be able to get full range of movement.

It would be very odd for the master cylinder, or slave for that matter to seize up unless it has been unused for a very long time.

Step one check the clutch can be activated at the fork where it comes out of the bell housing. Disconnect and remove the slave cylinder as it needs a new seal anyway. Then get your skinny arms up under the dash and take out the two bolts holding the master, remove the clevis and take it out for a look see. If it is seiezed it will need to be unseized and serviced or replaced so it has to come out anyway. While it is out you can deal with getting the arm back on the pivot properly. I suppose you did check that the pedal moves up and down freely while the broken arm was off? The rod that runs across has plastic bushes and unlikely to seize but you never know.
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Chris
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Post by Chris » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:03 pm

"activated at the fork where it comes out of the bell housing"

You mean where my finger is? I can release the clutch with no effort from there but yeah if I do push the clutch in oil squirts out which makes me think that it may be blocked/ seized from the slave cyl. Peddal is no problem that moves without the clutch cable connected to the arm.
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo

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Post by wedgenut » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:13 pm

No Chris, you are confused and starting to confuse me a bit. Firstly it is a hydaulic clutch so there is no cable. Forget about the master cylinder and slave cylinder for a minute. On the bell housing there is a big lever that sticks out through the rubber boot. that is the clutch fork. This is the bit that the slave cylinder pushes on to operate the clutch. Take out the bolts and remove the slave cylinder altogether, let it hang down on the hose and forget about it for a moment. Now get a pair of vice grips and clamp them on to the bit sticking out of the bell housing so you have something decent to push on. Now push the vice grips towards the rear of the car. Push hard and it should move back about 20 -25mm. It will take quite a bit of effort and will spring back hard when you relax the pressure. this is you duplicating what the slave cylinder has to do. If it does move like i said the problem is not there. If it doesn't move at all then something is wrong, either the clutch fork is not seated correctly in the bell housing or the release bearing is seized on the housing tube. Either way with the slave cylinder off and hanging down the pedal should move up and down freely. If it doesn't then there is something wrong with the master clylinder or the pedal box pivot.

If still not clear flick me an email and I will send you some pictures of what I am ranting about
So many cars, so little cash

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