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Power windows

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:11 pm
by vinnie55
Hey guys.

I've been a stranger lately.
but suddenly I'm all inspired to not let my piazza completely rust into the ground.
Largely because it's going that way.
and also because I'm soon to purchase a work vehicle which means
a: Piazza won't be my daily work horse (i won't hurt it so bad)
b: I wont rely on it to get from A to B so I can actually attempt some larger maintenance projects.


The passenger side power window has always been a bit on the slow side.
slower if you operate it from the drivers side.
now it has finally given up completely.

I went through this with my 1985 renault fuego aswell.
then when I sold it, the new owner came around a couple of weeks later to retrieve my spare parts collection (which was pretty fucking epic).
and in that short ammount of time, the thing was running like a charm.

apparently, he had taken the door trim appart, opened up the window motor and sprayed WD-40 in it, and then turned the motor on whilst still spraying it with WD-40.
and apparently that had worked.

I'm probably going to have a crack at that this weekend.
so anyone who knows more on the matter please let me know!!

I should also point out i don't know the first thing about window winder motors so any pointers and particularly photos if possible would be an amazing help.


Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:19 am
by eyecon
Apparently those motors are still available, so I wouldn't bother trying to resurrect your old one. You'll also need to make sure the main plastic clip securing the stop on the cable is not perished and broken off. This is a common occurrance but is fixable which I posted some time ago.

Welcome back btw.

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:54 am
by IZU069
I think non-Jap window motors tend to be more open so sprays may well work, but those (comon) Jap motors are fairly sealed.
But spraying the cable wheels (rail ends and motor) may help.
Most friction comes from the window seals/runners, hence why the rarely used passenger side cable-to-windowglass plastic clip often breaks (through non-use). Thus a check for gunge and warpage, and a spray with anti-friction spray or silicon can make a world of difference - and prevent clip breakage.

However, slower operation from the opposite switch may suggest a dirty switch, but may also be a result of higher motor current (due to wear or friction) and hence a greater wiring voltage drop.

All the Jap motors look to be the same, but whether their output shafts are the same is another issue. Their electrical connectors also vary.
After fitting electric windows to my Wasp (1965 Isuzu Bellett ute) I suggested to eyecon the possibility of using electric window assemblies from other Jap cars. (By then he had solved his broken clip problem so it was left for future investigation.)

I fitted electrics because it was easier than repairing the OEM manual mechanism. The key is finding a window lift of equal or greater distance, and a rail/motor combo that fits. (I liked the Mazda 626 with motor bolted to the rail, but the motor fouled with other door parts. So I used another assembly with the more common separate motor architecture.)
I don't like using switches that carry more than a few Amps and therefore I use relays. The electric windows I tested typically draw 3-4A rising to 9-11A when stopped at end of travel.
If I got my Piazza(s) on the road, I would have inserted relays to take the load off the OEM switches as well as reduce voltage drops.
Using relays also means the ability to use smaller switches and no need for the typical high-current 5-pin wiper switches. (Mere momentary SPDT on-off-on switches are required.) It also means easier addition of other controllers like master switches or control, auto opening or closing systems from alarms, etc.
My system is still a basic rocker switch mounted on each door (2 on the drivers door) that switch the relays and I have yet to wire the 3 position "enable" micro switch that selects battery +12V (the current wiring) or IGN/ACC or off (lock). I'll probably do that after I build my intended soft-start circuit (for easier window positioning) and auto shut-off (when windows reach their ends).

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:00 pm
by Benton
Well the power windows always work poor when they need the cleaning... but sometime its related to motor issues because if the motor or fuse are blown then it also stop working.. and sometime its due to poor gears.

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:06 am
by archangel62
I might piggyback on this thread, since I'm having a semi-related issue and am after all mates with Vinnie and catch up regularly.

My passenger window cable has frayed badly and stopped the window from going up or down. I've had to unbolt the window glass and duct tape it up in the short term. Does anyone know where to source or repair:

- The window cable (for my issue)
- The window motor (for Vinnie's issue)?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:01 pm
by IZU069
Complete passenger window mechanisms are probably rare as they are the ones that break the their plastic retainer (on the window fitting) though their cables may be another issue. I'll check to see; I know one cable was destroyed, but I had another swapped broken mechanism.

Motors should not be an issue.

Otherwise replacement with another Jap mechanism should be possible.

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:36 pm
by eyecon
Try Elky. He's sure to have a few lying around

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:01 pm
by wedgenut
I have a few cable mechanisms spare, some with working motors and some less motors. I prefer to fit the rack style as they are less prone to problems and no shitty plastic clips to break but they were only available on early model cars so you probably would never have seen them. If you need a new cable mech. let me know by PM

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:33 am
by archangel62
Okay, so I'm ready to burn my car. I sourced another complete mechanism, cable, motor and all. Put it in, it worked. I was chuffed, and started re-fitting the door trim. Used it for one day, aaaaand crack. New cable snapped. I'm at my wit's end with this stupid car, the aircon must be leaking too because it now flashes when I turn it on, and does nothing (only had it gassed a year ago) and it looks like the power steering hoses are leaking near the pump. Anyway, none of that's relevant.

Which models/years/months did the rack style power windows come in - if anyone knows? I'm really keen to piss off this cable contraption of utter engineering idiocy. I've noticed the passenger window seems to want to rotate top-forwards sometimes, like it's not running straight up and down.

In the meantime, if someone has a new cable or cable setup that'd be good, although I'd much prefer a rack setup. Raaaaage. At this rate the car's going to end up at the bottom of a cliff :blob6: - but I should probably insure it first.. lol

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:54 am
by wedgenut
you got your timing wrong on the mechanisms, the cable style was a new and improved version ( yeah right) by Isuzu to be quieter and more refined for your delicate ears. (probably also cheaper to make) which I suspect is nearer the truth. But with cheap comes nasty and the plastic cable clips are crap. Pre 85 were rack style so you may not have any luck sourcing any rack style in OZ. Same applies to the UK, they only got the cable style as well. The rack style has a different motor drive but the complete assembly IS interchangeable. You need to hold yer gob the right way to wriggle them into place but no big drama. Move the lock control rods out of the way and you would be fine.

I think I can supply a pair of rack style complete, you have a choice of with existing used motors that will be working but no guarantee on life, or fitted with brand new Isuzu OEM motors from my NOS pile.

If interested PM me

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:44 am
by eyecon
I've seen the rack style pop up from time to time on american ebay sites if that helps.

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:13 pm
by archangel62
Thank you both for your prompt and helpful replies! What would I do without you lot. Oh that's right, burn it... lol!

Anyway, I've PM'd Wedgenut, failing that I'll trawl eBay. Hopefully I can get this damn window sorted...