Getting more seriouse about a Car Club

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Chris
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Post by Chris »

Rodeobob wrote:
wedgenut wrote:As I have said before, all of mine are Isuzu original, (even the one i stuck the Holden garnish on) and I think they need their bumps feeling. I am rapt being associated with the APC or whatever name we end up with and it makes no difference to me what badge is on the car, The Holden Piazza, Isuzu Impulse, Asuna Sunfire or original JR120/130 is a bloody electronic nughtmare with strange handling and lots of little gadgets, whatever the badge or country it was first registered in, it is still a Piazza and thats the core interest of our Forum/club.

Long live the Piazza :supz:
Im with you wedgie. Im for the Piazza. The rest of the Isuzu cars i dont think we should worry about. Why not just stick to the Australian Piazza Club. A NZ could be put in there.

Bob
The only reason what I thought about having the Isuzu Car Club is because we would gain more members and their for would be able to establish regular meets
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo
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Rodeobob
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Post by Rodeobob »

You have a PM Chris.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

Currently unemployed. Watch this space.
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

ok.. I think we have all mixed feelings regarding opening a all Isuzu Car Club.

Heres what I think,

opening a all isuzu car club would mean we have more members and their for have regular curises, monthly newsletters etc.. Of course theirs the bad site about it, Barry will be in our neck for the next 10 years and will try anything to get rid off us, plus members will need to pay yearly fees and also we have to deal with geminis.

Registering a official Holden Piazza Club, same sorta stuff, member fees, newsletters etc but we wouldnt be able to get regular cruises/ meetings happening..


Or we could just stay unofficial..

Anyways, this isnt my say and i think we should really think about and stick with it in which directions we want to go.. I am sure that if we choose one path some may be pissed off but in the end its still more about the Piazza..

Lets organize another chat meeting to discuss this and hopefully everyone will make it this time.
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo
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wedgenut
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Post by wedgenut »

having a chat with as many people as possible is a good idea but I still think we need to focus on who WE are, I bloody hate geek speak but I think we need a mission statement we can agree on and once we have that the next step will be obvious.

We are Piazza people essentially (with some ambidextous people that like geminis as well) but Piazzas are why we are all here in the first place. That being the case isn't our mission Piazzas first and foremost. If we have to compromise that we will lose focus, direction, control and next thing you know we will all be buying people carriers and taking holidays in campervans in convoys with other campervans with JUSTROMIN written on the back.

In case I can't get to the chat (I will be away a bit over the next few weeks) I will make my thoughts clear and concise now. I think we should do our own thing whether official or unofficial and apologise to no one for being what we are and what we like.
So many cars, so little cash
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Post by GeminiCoupe »

In other words wedgie, your saying jsut stay as an Piazza club - which i might add is fine by me, BUT...

The first and foremost problem is actual NUMBERS. There are probably a whole 4 Victorian members on here that will have a RUNNING Piazza - that isnt a huge number, making regular meets a hard thing. If we were to stay Piazza only itd also leave people who own other Isuzu's with no place to go. Now, i can understand Chris's thoughts so ill expand on it.

Isuzu first began importing passenger cars [to my knowledge or lack of it] in the mid 60's. Early sales, while there, werent exactly spectacular. Until Holden took dealership rights to the Gemini, Isuzu was and remained relatively unknown. As such, again excluding Gemini's and later model Rodeo utes, total Isuzu numbers are relatively little. The aim behind opening the door is bringing some of the rarer Isuzus into our club - the Piazza WILL always stay the number one car [partly because numbers are already the greatest], its just letting some more variety in in the form of other Isuzu vehicles. If this is to happen, the list MUST remain fairly specific and strict. Ill put down what i think is right, i already mentioned it before -

Wasp/Luv/KB20
Florian
Bellel/Bellet
117 Coupe
Piazza [YB, JR120, JR130]
PF50/60 Gemini's ONLY
JT150/191 Gemini
FWD Piazza's
Isuzu MU

And that would be about it. Anything that wasnt LOCALLY assembled which rules out the Gemini hordes. Now, if this is to go ahead it would expand our numbers abit. I know of one PF60 ZZ/R Gemini owner in Melb that would most likely be interested in joining, Rick Ludgate would pretty much 100% jump on board, definately count me in and im sure others would follow. Denny on HGOL could possibly be interested, I know of another NSW forum member who owns a Bellet and his dad owns a PF60 so possibly them too. Already numbers are begining to surge, making things like meets, track days etc really possible.

Ill use the Datsun club for an example. If they limited cars to 1600's or 240/260z's alone, theyd have a decent turnout. But by letting other models, like say the 1000 and 1200's in, numbers are bigger, variety is bigger, and most importantly, the cars still remain related.

Anyway, everyone put there ideas forward and we will see how we go.

Nick-
project - 76 Gemini Coupe G200z EFI Turbo
daily - 02 S15 Nissan 200SX GTspecS Turbo
wet-weather fun toy - TX 75 Gemini Sedan G200z
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Post by Rodeobob »

Yeah thats fair enough Nick. By the way its Bellett.


Its comes down to insurance. You cant have anything formal and have "members" meeting it brings in liabilitys from every where. If something were to happen to someone and they got wind that we were attending an organized gathering there would be Writs flying everywhere.
If there were to be organized meetings we are still very spread out.
If there were to be organized meetings that would involve cost. Chris put out for donations, the money thats been dontaed so far has come from 3 members as far as im aware. Thats 3 out of 80 or so. How many members would like to pay a membership fee to be on here???
We can have meeting in the chat that Chris set up.

If i were to post up that i was going to the drags on any particular friday night, if you met me there and id paid my $50 to run, its all covered by uncle bob, even if you only paid to get in the gate to watch. Same would go for any other organized event that any of us attend. If we met up there and went for a cruize after to get food or what not its not pre organized. Its like going with your mate in his wog a dore to Lygon to get a souvlaki and cut some fully sic laps. Then cruize on down to St Kilda for a Hoe cruize and then up chapel to see what the ricers are doing. BTW im to old for that shit now. (PS no offence meant about the woggy references ey skip)

Yeah there is probably only one regoed Piazza owner in vic that gets on here. That doesnt mean theres not more out there that can share in the enthusiasm. Im sure Joe and Chris visited more victorians than Shorty and myself when they were in vic. The same goes for other states. We have a few members here now such as yourself that have not long ago got on the Piazza band wagon.

Im sure theres a few more Piazza fans in NZ as well.

Perhaps someone should email Joe and ask him to email some of the people he saw and encourage them to join up here.

Its my opinion that if this forum and the Piazza club can offer up all a Piazza owner needs they will participate here. Its just a matter of gettin people to join up.

Its fair enought to want to meet up as a group and shoot the shit. But hey you and i dont realy have much time for that at the moment. Its all heads down and bum up trying to get them on the road.

Its my opinion that it should be all about the Piazza in here. It limits the content and makes it easier to keep on top of things as far as this forum is concerned. Sure it makes it a limited content site which would limit the appeal to new members, but that would also cater better to new members that do join up because of the enviroment that it creates.

Cheers. Bob.
Too many Piazzas to little money.

Currently unemployed. Watch this space.
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wedgenut
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Post by wedgenut »

Wasp/Luv/KB20
Florian
Bellel/Bellet
117 Coupe
Piazza [YB, JR120, JR130]
PF50/60 Gemini's ONLY
JT150/191 Gemini
FWD Piazza's
Isuzu MU
Nick
Don't get me wrong I understand exactly what you are saying but bear in mind I know sod all about the OZ scene really so I am blinkered by what I see over here. Referring to your list of cars: Apart from the Piazzas of which there are few (but probably as many if not more than in OZ) I reckon you could count all the rest on one hand in total, I live near our biggesty city and I have never seen a Florian, Bellet, 117 coupe on the road and even gems are thin on the ground now in those variants. I've only ever seen one PA nero and it was in a wreckers yard. The MU's are well catered for by the Isuzu club over here which is all 4wd shit and a Piazza to them would be a round thing covered in cheese n stuff.

You guys over there have to make the call regards models permitted and it won't affect us over here at all so we will support the decision either way I'm sure. My one and only point is not to prostitute outrselves because of someone elses picky bloody rules. If I can gather a few of our guys together for a meet we will do so and I don't think we have any rules regards that over here. If we wanted a track day somewhre it would be different but at our main drag strip over here anyone can roll up on an open day and pay their $10 or whatever and run a few times. If six guys turn up in the same model car who cares. I can go there and see fifty Mirages or 323 hatches and most of them wouldn't know each other before they go. None of that constitues a club or organised gathering. Your rules over there must be hellish if a few blokes can't do a cruise without some pedantic petty minded beaurocrat sticking his beak in.

They would have a field day over here in the morning traffic jam with a dozen reps in Nissan Primeras all sitting in a row, would they deem that a gathering? surely not
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Post by elky »

yeah when we started up the "isuzu motorsports club" we went thru all this shit about what cars we would allow in etc, the club folded about 2 years ago after i got fed up with ppl not wanting to help out with all the work needed to keep a club legit

now all i do is organise a cruise every now and then thru the gemmy forum, nice and easy!!!

My advice is keep it unoffical!!! u enjoy it more!!!!

cheers
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Post by IZU069 »

Hi All,
I know it's now academic since ozisu.com got up (I like the name!), but I just spoke to Barry and yet again he confirmed what I thought - Piazzas and any Isuzu can join the ICCA, and badges are irrelevant.

I still can't figure out what the issue is - other than "Isuzu" is registered for Oz use etc (Barry or associates) and that a "Forum" can't operate under ICCA.

Anyone that satisfies their rules etc can join. I suspect most of us are satisfactory. Even Barry owns a Jackaroo, and has or maybe still owns 117s, Belletts (sedan & GTs), Rodeos etc. (Ironic - the only "public" discrimination I have seen is here - not the ICCA! But the ICCA do have several solutions for membership problems.)

The ICCA (including its "nee" Bellett-Gemini of NSW CC") have been going for over 30 years - I know 'cos I was at their 30th. Problem is - I can't remember if that was 5 - or 15 - years ago!
But from what Chis once said to me, I doubt that the "Piazza members" will want to fork out the $50 annual ICCA membership. Some of us do - or may - like myself, Rick, Denny.

Note too that as far as I know the ICCA usually do not publish technical articles, spare parts, etc for good reasons as supported by its members. And I have seen supporting statements within this Forum!

Anyhow as I said, it's all academic now. I am unsure what was initially sought - I thought web co-hosting was involved. But the Forum would have had to be a separate site anyway, and the whole problem has been solved by the new site. (Thanks Chris...!) But the ICCA has solved most of its club and membership issues whereas ozisu is still evolving.

Hopefully at least the ICCA re-badging and "Piazzas not able to join" crap has been put to rest.

I'll endeavour to keep abreast of ICCA developments - it should be awakening from a long slumber! (I think it had its hands full with issues that saw reactionary reduction in web & newsletter output.)

Looking forward to my red Piazza hitting the road soon.
I'm not saying when - I'm a bloke that can't handle committment.
But red does go well with Christmas doesn't it?

Cheers,
Peter aka IZU069
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.
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Chris
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Post by Chris »

Thanks to clear things up. I am only speaking for myself at this stage but as I understand it is that Barry does not allow HOLDEN Piazzas as their HOLDEN not ISUZU. I have just recently bought my 6th
Piazza and it is actually a JR130 ISUZU and apart from the seats and the Dash (Obvisly the engine), theirs not much difference. Anyhow, myself I wouldnt wanna join the ICCA anymore as I believe that us "The APC" once we get over 150 members I will do anything I can to make it an official Car Club just for Piazzas regardles Holden or Isuzu.

Even than the Forum will stay as I see it,as a great place for members to share information, though it will be alot more moderated.. Wedgenut and Rodeobob already making sure that work submissions are aubmitted for laws sake and make sure that the forum is a Family orieanteded (spelled that wrong) place. And if we decide to start a car club than most of the part of the forum information will be used for the monthly newsletter.

As I understand from other members their more happy to stay the way we are for now rather having curises with geminis. My understanding is also that barry "When he organizes cruises" they be only in Sydney???!!! What will the QLD, NZ, WA etc people do?? Also Barry wont allow the club to go down to the track for 1/4 races due to legal reasons (understandable).

Most of our members are between 18-50 (some exceptions) and myself I love to go to a 1/4 race night and represent the club, gives us puplicity and makes more people aware of the club.

They way we are now, members organize their own cruises their for we dont really have to worry about legal/insurance issues.



This is just my opinion.

Chris
LESS SHOW, MORE GO!!

2009 | 1986 White Piazza 2.2L, Man, STi Turbo (SOLD)
2006 | 1986 Black Piazza Turbo Manual (SOLD)
2005 | 1986 White Piazza Turbo Auto (Pain in the ass)
2004 | 1986 White Piazza Manual Stock
2004 | 1986 Red Piazza Manual TO3, Haltech
2001 | 1986 Silver Piazza Manual Turbo
IZU069
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Post by IZU069 »

Chris,
Barry will let Piazzas join ICCA. I got the feeling he'd even let those Hummers join (if they have the Isuzu engine).
But as you say, OzIsu has a different focus.
Note that Barry started "National Isuzu" meetings several years ago which were held in Canberra. I think 4 were held, but they ceased for a while. I'm hoping they start up again now that some major ICCA-impacting issues have been cleared up.
I think I read in a recent Bellettin (the BCCV - Bellett Car Club of Victoria (Inc.) - newsletter) that someone was organising a National meeting sometime next year somewhere in southern NSW (I can confirm details if anyone is interested).

As for legal liabilities, it's better for people to organise locally as this lets "us" off the hook. Of course, if any "victims" find out about an event through this site/forum and suffer damages, that's another issue.
[ I hope people are aware of the potential liabilities. I use the old "Coffee Slip" example from years ago. (FYI - A woman slippped on spilt coffee at some (knitting club?) meeting. She successfully sued several members (until costs were recovered) by going through the club membership list. (My family name starts with "A" - bummer!) Members that weren't even at the meeting were sued.
I've heard of similar things involving car clubs or gatherings. First they sue for the clubs assets, then the "club leader", then usually the "richest" members going down the list. I know similar suits have resulted in people losing the private home! (That's why I incorporated the BCCV.) ]

As I've discussed with you, liability is what deters many car clubs from publishing technical articles - especially modifications and substitutions. (A discussed though, there are some ways to minimise this risk, but ultimately the normal principal applies - despite any disclaimers and qualifications, if the info is there and it caused "damage", legal action is possible. BTW, I still haven't seen anything that isolates "web" information from such action.)

As to members, when you have a registered & traceable membership list, then you do have a membership that can be compared to ICCA's. Until then, it's a non-issue. (ie - I can't be considered a "member" merely because I have registered as IZU069 - more is required.)
[ ICCA aren't interested in membership numbers per se. They often direct membership inquiries to other clubs for various reasons (eg - Jackaroo & Rodeo) - not that this stops such people becoming ICCA members if they wish. ]

Although my OzIsu presence has been scarce recently, it seems as if OzIsu is well on the way to establishing what was originally sought. Once ICCA is fully "newsletter & web operational", they may be able to include a link or information to/for OzIsu for Piazza and other owners that hit the ICCA site. (I haven't checked their current status.)

Anyhow, enough of this legal and political blab. Currently I'm concentrating on a Rodeo 5spd box to replace the noisy Gemini box (and 6-month-slipping clutch) in my Wasp. And next week, I intend to dump "Florian #3" and "Cut-up 1970 Bellett sedan" and start getting my Red Piazza and RWC for registration (it needs the engine out of my spare/wreck silver Piazza).

See this thread http://www.holdenpiazza.com/forum/viewt ... =2992#2992 re what is said below. Bob
The only Piazza work I have recently done is supply the turbo water valve mechanism to Barterman along with a description of how I thought it worked. (Good ol' Isuzu designed it as a fail-safe mechanism - it should fail "open" so that water/coolant is NOT restricted. In fact it seems a few Piazzas have bypassed the whole thing with a plain hose; this should merely mean that that turbo takes a bit longer to warm up.) I could submit the "article", but I'd like to confirm my understanding of what it does, and it would be nice to know what controls it - is it merely engine-temp controlled, or is there more to it?

Cheers,
IZU069
IZU069 - ISUZU means a lot to me.
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