JR California style

Post by **Piazza_man** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:29 pm

So I was scratching around on the 'zone' the other day and noticed a new post from GeminiCoupe. I thought I'd give him a few days to jump on to our humble forum and tell us, buheir looks like he forgot to tell us.

So I'll put up what he should have.

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:04 pm

What do you expect from a Gemini - coupe or not. They have absolutely no respect. Nor care. Just look at that forum I used to....

And that's why I only post on Bellett forums...

[ Readers: I just PM'd eyecon yet another short PM-reply (NOT! As in NOT short) and just happen to continue a mention of certain forums... Yes - the above is in jest! ]
Alas there are some good forums (I'm still on HoldenGemini, as well as (Isuzu) twincam), and there are some great contributors - even on forums that I may no longer frequent.

But I like those shots. Looks great - apart from IMO undersized outer-tyre diameter.
And those twin headlights look good. Not that I wondered if our single headlights are not that good lighting-wise. (But maybe with a couple of LED spots in or behind the grill...?)

Thanks eyecon.
You do post some lovely links, info, and pics!

Post by **Ghost** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:31 am

Why is there a Holden badge on the back!
And that headlining and gear knob, why?!
Other than that it looks pretty good.

Post by **Piazza_man** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:13 am

I'm sure the rear garnish says ISUZU IMPULSE and not Holden. The small 15" deep dish wheels and filled-out-guards-look appears to be following a trend of what a lot of ricers are doing in the states right now. I hope that doesn't catch on here. As for the headlining... I dunno...it doesn't look too bad. Yes that gear knob doesn't look right.

Post by **Ghost** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:26 am

Nope, it says holden http://www.flickr.com/photos/rvp-cw/631 ... /lightbox/

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:26 am

Thanks Ghost for the flickr link.

Well it ain't a Holden...

It's a 1984 with G200Z engine and I-TEC EFI...
Lucky bastard - that means the full electronic timing and fixed optic dizzy like our 1989 onward 4ZE1 Jackaroo & Rodeos - just like the DOHCs from 1980.
[ Techno-Political stuff: If you want to read the reason Holden went from full electronic ignition back to mechanical, be sure to read BellettNet's differential. Please note how Holden did not want to find the new timing and fuel parameters (recurve the timing etc) for the 4ZC1-t engine, so they built a mechanical distributer and used a Bosch EFI instead - no doubt using the same ignition and fuel curves as were used for the G200Z engine. Then it seems after trying some transference to suggest that I have some disability, septic JT agrees with me... Not that I mind litols - they stay there, I stay here.
I hope readers understand my sarcasm - I described above what JT wrote. Of course the later posts about whether Jackaroo LSDs fit Belletts had already been answered by me. ]

Note the LH mounted indicator switch - that's more than the Europeans do for us. (Many seem to remain on the LHS which is central, and indicators like hi-low beam should be off-side - unless your gearstick is also offside, or you like to be able to control wipers whilst changing gears.)
Also the single dimmer for the mechanical dash (which is black; mine's white). Is the dimmer a PWM like I think ours are - IOW a decade or 2 before other cars used them? (And we can substitute LEDs? Though I haven't confirmed its PWM - the dimmer(s) might be analog...)

I wonder where the wiper motor control box is?

As to the general fashion taste. Well, it is a 'merkan. Our golfing dress might be up to their street dress, but otherwise their tastes are a bit extreme for us. I can't see the gear-knob or gear-boot and roof lining being used here, not that guard and wheel look.

Post by **Piazza_man** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:32 am

Ghost wrote:Nope, it says holden http://www.flickr.com/photos/rvp-cw/631 ... /lightbox/

Well I'll be...good pick up there Ghost. I thought you were talking the rear garnish. That is so wrong. Although I do wonder what he did to rear suspension to cost the owner $2K.

Skrilla · Post by **Skrilla** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:59 am

East coast(cali) has a style of its own,hence the gawdy headliner and shift knob.The rear says Isuzu,just above the Impulse but the latest trend is adding chrome(Pep Boys,Autozone,RS Straus,Kmart)letters on the back of cars that spell out whatever the owner desires.Iam sure he put Holden to make his car unique like a Holden owner would add an Isuzu Impulse wing.I tracked the guy down he seems like a nice guy,anybody restoring,modding or driving an Impulse makes my cool book.Anyways I asked about his Eibach lowering springs and he said hes using a set from a Toyota MR2(not sure the year yet)and claims they are they same.I will look into that myself my car needs a slam.

Post by **Piazza_man** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:26 pm

Thanks Skrilla for the heads up on the trends. That would be great to know the configuration of the rear setup. Looks like he had to roll the rear guards to get the tyres to fit. Overall I really like.

Btw Skrilla, are you still chasing that part, because I have good news if you do. Hit me up with a PM if you want.

Skrilla · Post by **Skrilla** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:26 pm

Thats the last piece I need.Good news I got what you were looking for.Hows an even trade sound?Email me at skrilla75@aol.com
Sean

Skrilla · Post by **Skrilla** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:29 pm

BTW what are guards,I assume thats Oz for fender flares?

Post by **Piazza_man** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:07 pm

Yeah, sorry Skrilla, that's correct. Guards=fender flares.

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:58 pm

IZU069 wrote:It's a 1984 with G200Z engine and I-TEC EFI...
Lucky bastard - that means the full electronic timing and fixed optic dizzy like our 1989 onward 4ZE1 Jackaroo & Rodeos - just like the DOHCs from 1980.
[ Techno-Political stuff: If you want to read the reason Holden went from full electronic ignition back to mechanical, be sure to read BellettNet's differential. Please note how Holden did not want to find the new timing and fuel parameters (recurve the timing etc) for the 4ZC1-t engine, so they built a mechanical distributer and used a Bosch EFI instead - no doubt using the same ignition and fuel curves as were used for the G200Z engine.

Holden didn't develop anything to do with the engine management, the mechanical timed distributor & fuel only ECU was on JDM 4ZC1-T models from the start right through to 89. We seemed to get the equivalent of a JDM Piazza XE just with a 5 link rear end and hard plastic bumpers.

I-TEC 4ZC1-T is a Euro/US thing. Probably something to do with emissions, and more of the population living above sea level where the MAF is better for its ability to read air density.

Still it makes no sense why Isuzu persisted with the fuel only ECU for any Piazza when they had the ability to put I-TEC in everything.

IZU069 · Post by **IZU069** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:46 pm

Your last line is the point I was trying to make.

Why go back to a mechanical dizzy? It isn't emissions because emissions or O2 or computed performance readings can't change the mechanicals whereas the mapped curves not only have far better resolution (wrt to desired ignition curves) but could also be tweaked by the system on the fly. (The 4ZE1s have tweaking for EFI idle mixtures as do Camira & N13 Delcos etc, but tweaking across the entire rev range is not much different (other than memory space), and certainly for ignition is no big deal. And since Delcos can also do the ignition mapping...)

I take it that the JDM 4ZC1-t was developed after the G200W with its I-TEC system? (ie, 1980)

Ergo, someone specified the backward fuel-only Jetronic and mechanical dizzy. Unless Japan did not want to release it? (Weren't the NZ G200Zs ITEC? I have a NZ else Jap G200W with ITEC fixed optical dizzy (same interchangeable sensor as the Jackaroo 4ZE1 (not Rodeo)).

I do know that whoever ordered the Aussie Piazza's ordered the superseded body. (Not to mention they forgot to cancel the 2nd order LOL!)

I could probably add my "why" question to my list for my guru. Guru once described WHAT was ordered (compared to the normal production and offerings), though not so much on the ECU side - not that I ever questioned why - probably because I didn't realise our Piazza had downgraded to a mechanical dizzy.

But my TechPol bit above was a bit of sarcasm directed at litols with self-contradictory details or opinions whose basis is often logically flawed as well (ie, producing a mechanical dizzy because the cost to re-time and tune a new engine is prohibitive? Unless they meant to reprogram an existing system, but that was not the issue - unless Isuzu would export a 4ZC1-t I-TEC vehicle with G200W maps...)

It's ironic that our ADRs prevent upgrading to more modern system that would improve fuel economy and emissions (eg, Delco comes to mind).
That's why I prefer to stick with my pre-emissions-ADR vehicles and slot in Piazza G200Ws with ITECs or homebrews, but it'd be frustrating if my Piazzas were to hit the road.

Bugle · Post by **Bugle** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:18 am

You would expect the mechanical dizzy would have worse emissions, but Australian and Japanese emission standards weren't as tight as the US (especially California).

Yeah the G200W I-TEC was in production well before the 4ZC1 came around. Maybe at the time they had no way of getting knock control onto the I-TEC ECU (Nippondenso had only just patented knock control at the time) so went with the separate ND knock control ECU? But then it still doesn't explain why they kept going with ECGI when they did get knock controlled I-TEC for the US Impulse turbo.

Why we got the ECGI system is probably down to what they could make cheapest. To make an AU specific wiring harness would probably make the car even more overpriced!

Only difference in the body was that they'd deleted the rear garnish sometime around 86? The US body kept the garnish through until 87 aswell. Pretty sure the thickened B pillar came in around 88.

The Piazza ECU case is pretty big, you could fit many other things inside it and who would know?