Turbo Upgrade

WA Piazza · Post by **WA Piazza** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:33 pm

I just had an upgrade idea but im not sure about how much it will cost and wot parts id need

I was thinking of putting in a T03 turbo, front mount intercooler, straight through air filter (with no sensor or do you need one?).

Just a few things:
What injectors do i need to buy to have the T03 turbo?
What ECU would i need to buy for the injectors?
Do i need to upgrade anything else to put the T03 turbo on?
Do i even need to upgrade the injectors?

Cheers

Josh

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:18 am

I suggest you have a bit of a read thru some posts. Most of what your asking has been touched on before.

Cheers. Bob

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:39 am

As rodeobob already said so, have a searched threw the old posts.
Thomas (Bugle) and myself have/had T03/T3s turbos.

1. Piazza is already front intercooled so I dont know what you want to intercool more
2. Piazza has already a straight up airfilter so all you have to do is put a pot onto the end.

Now if you would ask me I would tell you, you would need to buy a EMS (Engine managment system) such as Haltech or Wolf 3D. But than again thomas and others will tell you their car just runs fine with the stock ECU.

Cost and upgrade whise, the T3 is a straight bolt on, though if you dont wan't do damage to your engine long term or to get more HP I would recommend to upgrade the throttlebody and defenetly install a EMS as a bigger turbo will need more OIL/Air and Fuel mixture which the stock ECU can not provide. Also if you would like to run High boost you should do some work to the engine such as Head work and replace the seals with good seals. I am not talking about those cheapo retarded once from Repco, Go to a specalist and replace the front crank/ timing and rear main seal.

Most turbo upgraded cars running stock ECU's tend to blow smoke or tend to wear alot quicker (Seals etc..)
T3 will cost your around $300-$800 depending on luck and afford.

But I believe we have coverd this subject awhile back.

Do a search on T3/ T03 and if you still have questions, go ahead.

WA Piazza · Post by **WA Piazza** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:06 am

kool
cheers for that it give me more of a better idea on what to do so i went onto websites from perth adn i got a full quote on the whole works (including turbo, air filter, injectors, ecu and labor and everything else). The hole upgrade si gona cost about 4gz if im lucky.
Thats about 2 months of pay for me so yeh i should have a really quick car soon and pics will deffenatly be on here after that so i recon about january next year the car will be upgraded (or maybe even closer).

Lets just hope it passed the pits first time and nothing else is wrong with it hahaha.

Cheers

Josh

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:59 am

Nice.. 4k seems about too much for a turbo upgrade. If you do some reasearch yourself and the work you would be looking at $2000 the most.

But I am wondering why you already talking about upgrading if your piazza isnt even running nor you have front axels and sway bars..

Another thing is, you keep saying Pits.. What are pits.. (Sorry i am stupid)

Bradlze · Post by **Bradlze** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:26 am

Chris wrote: Another thing is, you keep saying Pits.. What are pits.. (Sorry i am stupid)

pits a WA terms of... cant think if the word haha
its the place where cops look over your car to see if its roadworthy so you can get your car registered lucky for us wa folks apperently our pits are pretty easy going

WA Piazza · Post by **WA Piazza** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:35 pm

well i have been thinking about upgrades because so then i can start saving. Ive been finding out information and prices so then i no how much im looking at.
I will be spending 4gz instead of 2gz because i have no clue in how to upgrade a car im not even a mechanic.

I could try but im not sure how to do it.
I dont even no how to take out an injector let alone put in a bigger intercooler.

One thing i no is that i will be gettin a custom bodykit for the car cos i dont like the look of the big intercooler sticking out the bottom like my pic.
It would scrape easly i recon.
To get the car registrated you ave to take it over the pits here. what do you call it over there?

Josh

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:21 pm

In qld we call it transport department and vic its vicroads

One thing about piazzas is though, if you dont know what your doing you should either learn it or don't bother buying one. You will soon see that most mechanics wont touch the car and if they do theirs a chance that they fuck it up. Plus I don't wanna talk about costs as you would be spending $$$$++ on it.

Piazzas tend to blow seals alot so best is to know how to fix them yourself.. A mechanic who would touch the car will ask for $300+ for just fixing your rear mainseal.

My advise to you is, buy a good set of tools and buy the workshop manual as it isnt as hard as you may think it is.. The manual shows you step by step how to take something apart and put it back to gether, close to LEGO construction manuals and you will always have the forum to ask questions if you get stuck with something.

WA Piazza · Post by **WA Piazza** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:36 pm

ohk where would i be able to get the manual book from?
i dont have a credit card only cash and bank card and yeh.
If i was to do it my self then i guess id save a lot more money so yeh ill deffentaely think about it depends on how much my mechanic will charge cos my brother has a mechanic cos he races rally.

so yeh if he cant do it then ill just have to do it

cheers chris

Josh

Rodeobob · Post by **Rodeobob** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:07 pm

Hey Josh, run before you walk. If you run before you find your footing you will fall flat on your face.

How old are you??? Im tipping in the 16-19 age group.

Get the car going and on the road and then take it one step at a time.

Youve already got one thing. Its a Piazza and it looks the part, coz they all do.

I will ask you one thing.
What rims and tyres are you using. Id say with a Piazza thats the first step. 15" with 50 series rubber is a vast improvement over the std tyres. 16" is even better. To find rims with the right offset to fit a piazza isnt easy and will cost money, as do low profile tyres.

Has it been lowered a bit, and lowered properly??? that would be the next step. Makes the car heaps better to drive.

Fair enough fit a T3.
Fair enough go a bigger intercooler, id even go as far as to get a custom inlet plenum done with a front facing throttle body. (have a look in ozgemini theres a few blokes in there that have done it) That will keep the intake tems down a little more and make for easier plumbing. Along with the new plumbing fit a Blow of valve.

One thing you have to consider is the inside of the motor. Its got factory cast pistons. If you dont pay carefull attention to trying to up the power you will easily put a hole in one of em. Forged pistons will cost a packet.

Before you run into trouble on the inside or possibly the cause of the trouble will be the electronics running the motor. Why electronics. The computer controls fuel only. The distributor is still mechanical, the engine management doesnt control it. If the ECU cant control the ignition the engine wont run at its best. it can only run as good as the fuel can be altered. The distributor will have to be changed by someone who is in the know to suit extra boost. As its mechanical it will have a limit to how much it can advance/retard the timing, from its inital setting to its full retard/advance.

You can spend a fortune on the rice factor. Get all the flash shiny gear. A turbo that makes lots of boost to toot out the BOV. shiny doesnt mean fast. You can have go with less cost and without the bling too. It doesnt fall off trees so spend it wisely.

Those injectors are a start. Even with the std turbo. A little gain can be had from the std turbo. The T3 realy needs a propper manifold made to work propperly. The mounting flange is different and is restrictive if you use an adapter to mount up the T3. Sure you will get extra boost from a t3 straight off even with the adapter but it can be done better. DOne right it will work better too. Better response etc. Why pay a guy to make up the adapter and fit the t3 then turn around and pay him again to remove the t3 and fit up a special manifold for it later when you want more go?? Easy enough to do if you can play with the car yourself. But if you have to pay.

Cheers. Bob.

GeminiCoupe · Post by **GeminiCoupe** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:23 pm

What it really comes down to is what you want out of the car. Whats your aim, maximum budget etc? Might be able to give you a more specific answer. I have a setup in mind which i eventually intend to do to my car, im confident it would see a high 13 if traction allows. Anything you do really, will comfortably eat up 4k if using quality components.

Ill start with turbocharging. Other members have mentioned using a T03 - there are two common types. One type was used on the FJ20DET Nissan engines and the RB30ET [aka VL Commodore Turbo]. From memory they run a .63 rear housing, internal wastegate, plain bearing. One in good condition can be had anywhere from 300 up to 500 - i would not pay any more for one. As they are plain bearing, there is abit of lag and response isnt all that great. Expect power to be in the 4000-7000rpm region. It will be happy with upto 15psi - any more then this and it isnt terribly efficient. The good part is there are alot of specialists that can rebuild it with larger compressor and exhaust wheels, ultimately giving it better HP flow, more boost potential and thus more power. Rebuilds cost around 1100 to get it to flow 450-500hp.

The second type of T03 is also commonly referred to as the T28-T03, found on the R32 Nissan Skyline RB20DET engine. These use the same flange as the above T03, however the internals are roller bearing and they use cermaic compressor wheels [as oposed to steel]. The beauty of this is it spools up quickly and holds boost all the way upto redline, however being a ceramic wheel they dont like high boost levels [no more then 13-15psi depending on condition] as the compressor wheel will eventually develop hairline cracks and shatter. These go for around the same price as the aforementioned T03, Bugle is using one on his car.

As far as i know, none of these turbos will bolt upto the standard exhaust manifold - the IHI RBH5 used in the Piazza uses a completely different flange. You will either need to make a custom turbo manifold [around 500-700 depending on wether or not its tuned length or log-type]. If you can weld, you should be able to build it yourself for 150 and alot of hours, or get an adapter made up [IHI flange to Garret T03 flange] - Bugle is running one of these, ask him for details.

Now onto my suggestions.
Turbo

Id go for the GT28 off the SR20DET used in the Nissan S15 200SX. This is a good turbo capable of holding good boost levels [upto about 17psi-18psi], and uses a ball bearing core giving quick spool up time. As capacity is the same as the SR20, it should display similar characteristics and should be a good match. This turbo is rated at 320hp and being relatively new, should also be in good condition. Retail is anywhere from $500-800. It too will need a custom manifold.

In terms of filtration, run a pod filter ONLY if it is in an airbox. Exposed filters suffer from heatsoak if unshielded - the hotter the air, the lower the density. The lower the density, the less power and the higher the chance of detonating and causing severe damage

Intercooling

Dont go overboard and get the biggest cooler you can find. The Hybrid types sold at AutoBarn are good value - $400 for the 600 x 350 x 75 model, which is excellent for a brand new intercooler. Get 2.25" piping made up for it - stainless piping isnt essential. This intercooler will need the front bumper modified to fit.

Throttle Body

The 4ZC1 runs the fussy little twin-butterfly throttle body setup commonly found in the 80's. Get rid of this, and get the plenum modified to accept a different throttle body. Id go XF EFI Falcon [~75mm] or VN V6 [65mm]. Both are single butterfly.

Injectors and fuel system

Again dont go overboard - no point buying the biggest injectors you can find if the engine doesnt need them. Shoot for something around the 350cc-400cc range and these should be plentyful. RB26DETT injectors and Toyota 7MGTE types are 440cc, generally sell for around $400 for a set of 6. Other good ones are Nissan CA18DET [apparently 320cc]. Basically take a look at alot of Jap import engines. Be careful - most injectors will need mods to the fuel rail.

Injectors can only do so much without decent fuel delivery. Ditch the midget standard surge tank and fit a larger one in the boot. Run a VLT Bosch fuel pump to feed the fuel rail. This are a good pump and supply suprisingly good literage. Ive seen them go for anything from $70-150.

ECU

This comes down to budget, and wether or not you can afford brand new or second hand. Basically all you will need is one to control both timing and fuel. The Piazza dizzy will need modification to run on the ECU - ask Rodeobob about this. Alternatively fit a 4ZE1 crank angle dizzy on the engine and run multi-coils - be warned, only some ECU's support this.

Good second hand items are the EMS Stinger and Dual Sport, Wolf3D V3 ->, Microtech LT8 / LTX8, Microtech MTX4. Dont pay more then $1000 for a second hand ECU as you will have to pay to wire it in.

Brand new, a Microtech LT10S is the pick, retails for around 1400-1500 installed AND tuned [depends on where you go], as is the Wolf3D V4.

Finally, get a 3" mandrel bend exhaust made up from the dump pipe back.

Ive just realised how much ive written, so youve probably forgotten everything ive said by now so ill give you a summary.

GT28 S15 320HP turbo
Larger front mounted intercooler
Larger Injectors
Aftermarket ECU
VN V6 Throttle body
3" Exhaust
Upgraded Fuel System

This setup should happily deliver 15psi up to around 17psi. At this sort of boost level with the right level of tune it should comfortably eclipse 150rwkw - it will most likely be up around the 165-170rwkw level. That should easily run a high 13. A mate of mine is running low 14's with 150rwkw in a VP Commodore - theres a 300kg difference, so the Piazza should be quicker.

Sorry about the big post/draining read.

Nick-

WA Piazza · Post by **WA Piazza** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:18 pm

dude thats a total eye opener

well i guess on monday ill just have to go buy the Toyota 7MGTE 440cc Injectors, the VN V6 (65 mm) throttle body and a plenum modified and the VLT Bosch Fuel pump.

So with this all on my list of buys and if i do buy them then ill still pass the road worthy test?

Neways this might be a very stupid question but wheres the surge tank and wot does it look like and wot would i replace it with?

cheers

Josh

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:41 pm

Umm like rodeobob said. take one step at a time here before you waste your money.

Like you admited you know nothing about fixing cars so Get your car firstly on the road before you start putting neon lights and big excaust on it (if you know what I mean).

Regarding the manual, go to www.australianpiazzaclub.com and click on the manual, fill out the details and Poida will contact you shortly.

The manual is $25 for APC members or $50 for non members

Bradlze · Post by **Bradlze** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:52 am

geminicoupe and rodeobob how bout you write a novel lol i think ill read over it again when im not drunk

WA Piazza · Post by **WA Piazza** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:50 am

lol brad

Yeh guys u should write a novel on piazzas

i think it would help the people with piazzas a whole lot and not only that it would help gemi owners (bastards stop stealing our engines) alot as well. Oh and dont forget helping out piazza search. lol

cheers

Josh